Sub Contra Tuba ... HELP???

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:00 pm

Given its age, a BBb helicon pitched for the old A=435 tuning would be about 18.6 feet long. Round it up and you have 19 feet. (Does 18.6 feet = 19 feet?)

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:32 am

I found this picture somewhere on the web a while back but I have no idea where

It shows a very early berliner valve subcontrabass tuba or possibly a saxhorn as I recall.

-Eric

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 11:10 am

Shockwave wrote:I found this picture somewhere on the web a while back but I have no idea where

It shows a very early berliner valve subcontrabass tuba or possibly a saxhorn as I recall.

-Eric

That is one that I've never seen- THANKS!

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:08 pm

I wish someone would show up at a major tuba conference with one of these things.

My main enjoyment would be seeing some of you big guys having the same lung-emptying attempt at playing a note, that I get playing a 6/4 BBb BAT.

MA

tubatooter1940 · Post by **tubatooter1940** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:38 pm

Besides being smokin' hot, Ann Coulter is the meanest woman I have heard of lately. Politics aside, her husband or boyfriend is a very lucky man. She knows how to make love hurt just right.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 12:40 pm

windshieldbug wrote:
Shockwave wrote:I found this picture somewhere on the web a while back but I have no idea where

It shows a very early berliner valve subcontrabass tuba or possibly a saxhorn as I recall.

-Eric

Looks to me like the advertising model that Boosey used. The valves are dummies--take a look at the length of the valve branches--no way those are real--the first and third branches are virtually the same length

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 2:05 pm

Shockwave wrote:I found this picture somewhere on the web a while back but I have no idea where

-Eric

Thats an old pic from the mid 19th century of Adolph Sax with one of his sub-contra bombardons . I have seen it in a biography of him.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 3:10 pm

Look again at the 3rd valve tubing. If you look closely, I believe you will see that it does not simply come up and back in, but curves around the back of the valve block, and possibly around the bugle as well and not visible in this particular picture, as was the practice of several manufacturers, including York.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 4:32 pm

iiipopes wrote:Look again at the 3rd valve tubing. If you look closely, I believe you will see that it does not simply come up and back in, but curves around the back of the valve block, and possibly around the bugle as well and not visible in this particular picture, as was the practice of several manufacturers, including York.

The 3rd slide loops around the back of the valve block creating a hand grip, it loops around and under the block in a tight wrap where it comes back to the third valve and enters in the back of the casing. The horn has the old Berliner-pumpe valves that were common in the 1830s-1860s, there in and . York tubas have a grip as do many makes with top action valves but they are the 4th or 6th branch of the bugle, not the 3rd valve branch. The 3rd slide is also two whole tones on the "sax horn" as oppose to the one and a half we are familiar with today. Just a bit more info for what its worth.

Daniel C. Oberloh
Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works
Seattle, WA
206.241.5767
www.oberloh.com

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 6:27 pm

Tony E wrote:Was this horn designed for the valves to be played with the left hand?

I'm guessing that this is a mirror image print. Then everything would be oriented correctly.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 9:59 pm

Tony E wrote:Dan,

BTW, why are you wasting your time with these tubenet posts when you could otherwise be custom fabricating one of these cool horns for me???

Tony

Uhh... I made a top branch to bell brace today for a king 2341 and also rebuilt the first slide and mouth-pipe assemblies. I de-dented and reformed the top and bottom branches and guard moldings for a Cerveny CC tuba. I should have the King done tonight and the Cerveny done tomorrow. I finished my homework and brushed my teeth. So is it okay Uncle Tony if I go on line and play with the rest of the guys? .......... Mom said it was okay.

Pleeze?

D.

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Mon Jul 10, 2006 10:30 pm

Tony E wrote:Dan,

BTW, why are you wasting your time with these tubenet posts when you could otherwise be custom fabricating one of these cool horns for me???

Tony

Uhh... I made a top branch to bell brace today for a king 2341 and also rebuilt the first slide and mouth-pipe assemblies. I de-dented and reformed the top and bottom branches and guard moldings for a Cerveny CC tuba. I should have the King done tonight and the Cerveny done tomorrow. I finished my homework and brushed my teeth. So is it okay Uncle Tony if I go on line and play with the rest of the guys? .......... Mom said it was okay.

Pleeze?

D.

Mikelynch · Post by **Mikelynch** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:04 am

Adam,
That is an interesting article you posted. The left column is cut off. Is there any discussion of note in the portion that did not appear in the image?

This is the first document I have seen that provides a likely date for the Harvard and/or Carl Fischer horn(s).

Thanks,
Mike Lynch

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 11:21 am

Adam Peck wrote:An interesting artical from the October 1899 issue of The Metronome Magazine Vol XV.

It IS interesting that they say while it is designed for a tuba player to play two octaves, it will be STEAM powered when used for the 1900 exhibition...

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sat Jul 15, 2006 1:54 pm

windshieldbug wrote:It IS interesting that they say while it is designed for a tuba player to play two octaves, it will be STEAM powered when used for the 1900 exhibition...

I assume that some sort of metal reed was used--as steam alone wouldn't do a thing except create fog.

But then, it would be in the category of a Daboll trumpet, invented 30 years earlier for use in lighthouses--eventually replaced by the Diaphone--a direct relative of the organ stop of the same name.

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:55 pm

I'm sure someone could fabricate a bell stack and set of slides that would convert a 20J into a FF or EEb subcontrabass tuba. Two reasons why I suggest modifying a 20j are that it has a large bore and that the taper of the horn almost seems like it is a truncated subcontrabass tuba. For instance, the bell throat is a bit small in relation to the bottom bow compared to other tubas. A straight bell might be a bit tall, so the bell could curve around or down and back like a saxophone. Making it out of brass would be ideal, but Im sure fiberglass would work fine.

-Eric

Daniel C. Oberloh · Post by **Daniel C. Oberloh** » Sun Jul 16, 2006 10:59 pm

Shockwave wrote:I'm sure someone could fabricate a bell stack and set of slides that would convert a 20J into a FF or EEb subcontrabass tuba.
-Eric

These would only be contrabass? Am I wrong?

Making one is not really as simple as it sounds; the amount of effort is quite extensive and involved. I think it could be an interesting project but it would probably be more easy to start from scratch, provided one had the money for the one-off tooling to make a proper bell or the abillity to make it themself, a skilled and willing metal spinner who could perform the task of spinning the bell properly, the shop space to do the work, the actual abillity and knowhow to fabricate the branches and valves, and the proper engineering and accoustical design. Well lets get started; hey Rick Denny lets get a blueprint going for a CCC tuba

Hey, Harold has an old barn, lets put on a show!!!

Hmmm, my back hurts already......................maybe later.

Daniel C. Oberloh

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 1:36 am

I'd want a subcontrabass tuba to be an octave below a bass tuba, an octave below F or Eb. A tuba an octave below a contrabass should probably be called an octobass.

Adding onto an existing tuba seems a lot simpler to me, for instance:

To build this over-the-shoulder FF horn from hell all you would have to do is build a male mold from a pipe, plywood, spray foam, and bondo to make a composite bell from fiberglass or carbon fiber. With a more complicated mold one could wrap the bell around the existing body of the horn. It would be a relatively fast, cheap way to experiment.

-Eric

Shockwave · Post by **Shockwave** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:32 am

Harold,

to quote myself,

Shockwave wrote:I'm sure someone could fabricate a bell stack and set of slides that would convert a 20J into a FF or EEb subcontrabass tuba.
-Eric

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Mon Jul 17, 2006 10:39 am

tuben wrote:To build this over-the-shoulder FF horn from hell all you would have to do is build a male mold from a pipe, plywood, spray foam, and bondo to make a composite bell from fiberglass or carbon fiber. With a more complicated mold one could wrap the bell around the existing body of the horn. It would be a relatively fast, cheap way to experiment

Trouble is, it only works if you use the bell garland

TubeNet

Sub Contra Tuba ... HELP???

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