"Kaiser?"

[Steve Marcus]

Isn't the Miraphone Siegfried prototype going to be this size?

Here are the specifications that are purportedly provided by the manufacturers on their largest BBb tubas:

--------SIEGFRIED----M-W 197/198-----CERVENY 601/701/696-----HIRSBRUNNER HBS 193
Height -----100 cm/39.4"-----114 cm/44.9"-----112 cm/44.09"-------------112 cm/44.09"
Bell diameter-----50 cm/19.7"-----46 cm/18.1"-----50 cm/19.7" ------------- 48 cm/18.9"
Bore---------------21-24mm---------21.5 mm/.846"------21.2mm/.827" -----------20.5mm/.807"
-----------------------.827"-.945"

The only specification shown on the Rudolf Meinl website for the "6/4" BBb tuba is the bell diameter: 56 cm/22".
I would imagine that Herr Meinl would supply the other specifications if an inquiry were addressed to him directly. Also, there are at least two 6/4 Rudy Meinl BBb tuba owners who read TubeNet.

Unfortunately, there are no specifications shown on the 6/4 Meister Walter Nirschl BBb Kaiser tuba. The only spec provided for the Boehm & Meinl Model 555 6/4 BBb is the bell diameter: 48cm/18.9"

The information on the Hirsbrunner is listed for comparison only because that horn is probably no longer built.

Has anyone heard if it is going to hit production soon? I checked a couple of months ago with Miraphone and they did not have a timeline.

According to correspondence with one of the engineers assigned to the Siegfried project, the estimated release date is late autumn 2011.

FWIW, the Siegfried is the only tuba listed above that I have played for more than 10 minutes (I played a 6/4 Rudi for that amount of time--much more time would be needed to get comfortable with its demand for slow, thick air). The Siegfried was very easy to play. I'd certainly like the opportunity to play the other models before I would buy one of these 6/4 BBb tubas.

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696. Perhaps the diameter of the throats differ, but that is not stated in any manufacturer's specs (where on the throat would one measure for uniformity--just before the bell flare?).

[rodgeman]

Steve Marcus - Thanks for the update.

[Ulli]

The differences between the Cerveny 601, 701, and 696 are not clear, except that the 601 and 701 are heavier than the 696.

All 7xx Cervenys are complete gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

[Rev Rob]

I am glad Chris purchased this tuba. I was bidding on it as well. But looking at the size of this tuba, I would be hard pressed to send enough air through it. This is a young man's tuba.

[sloan]

The Kaiser term for a big tuba may be seen in the light of tuba history still being young, when when Germany became a unified Kaiserreich in 1871.

Whereas there were tubas this large being produced far, far earlier than 1871.

What were they called then, Klaus?

[Ulli]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

[Wyvern]

The 701 is red brass (higher copper content than gold brass) with nickel silver valves and leadpipe and appeared on the one I had hand-hammered (could see all the seems)

Sorry, my translation mistake:

For the Cerveny 7xx, the German word is Goldmessing, so I translated gold brass.

No reason to apologise! Maybe in German the Cerveny is called gold brass, but is more usually called red brass in English due to the more red color with higher copper content.

[bisontuba]

Hi-
Having seen this older thread, and with recent interest in large rotary tubas again , I am just wondering what is your favorite:
1). BBb and, 2). CC 'Kaiser' tuba(s) that YOU HAVE PLAYED (whether you own it or not, and whether it is a new model or older horn) these days?

Thanks-

Mark

[bisontuba]

' still for sale?

I just love asking a question, and having a sarcastic response.....
Mark

[Lars Trawen]

When asked what make and model this tuba is, Chris Schmidt, its lucky owner, answered, "It's a Kaiser BBb, purchased from eBay."

These questions certainly are not meant to embarrass Chris (besides, I'd like to try the horn someday!), but I'm curious:

Is "Kaiser" the name of a company, builder, or brand? I thought the term simply referred to a style or size of horn.

Who is the manufacturer of this tuba, and is there an actual model designation? Has anyone besides Chris seen or does anyone else own a tuba exactly like this one?

When working in Holland about 20 years ago, I came across a Dutch manufacturer of tubas, located in Enschede.
The company was named Van Weersel and the tubas were called J.F. Kayser.
I don't know if the company still exists.
One of the models I testplayed was very similar to Chris' Kaiser seen on his picture.
For you to compare, I attach a picture, taken at that occasion.
I was told it was a Miraphone copy. It certainly looks like one.

[PhilGreen]

In 1987 the band I played in bought 2 Kaiser tubas from Phil Parker in London. They were in BBb, had 5 rotary valves and the 5th stepped the tuning down a minor 3rd.
Could anyone identify from this rather old photo? My friend still has this one in his loft, unplayed and unloved, although I see him seldom now to encourage him to play and check out the model myself.

Thanks in advance......

[imperialbari]

190-5U

[PhilGreen]

190-5U

Brilliant. And are these instruments brilliant too?

[imperialbari]

Depends how much you shine them.

[PhilGreen]

Depends how much you shine them.

Did I ask for that? Probably.......

OK - from what I've read lot's of people rave about the new 190 CC. This is the older, beefier cousin in BBb. Is/was it a good tuba to play or just a "curious" one to blow?

[Wyvern]

Phil, I tried the other one of these band Miraphone 190 at Mr.Tuba and did not find the best example of a Kaiser BBb. A modern Melton Fafner, Rudolf Meinl, or Miraphone Siegfried are definitely much better Kaisers.

[imperialbari]

I found out about the 190-5U via the 1993 Miraphone tuba catalogue in my brass galleries.

Just took a look at the OPs photo. Appears like that tuba also is a Miraphone 190. From the said catalogue it may be seen that the German # is 0090. Also that the same body comes with 3, 4, or 5 valves. The transmission, like the nickel silver trim, comes in more or less prestigious variants.

Klaus

[toobagrowl]

Hi-
Having seen this older thread, and with recent interest in large rotary tubas again , I am just wondering what is your favorite:
1). BBb and, 2). CC 'Kaiser' tuba(s) that YOU HAVE PLAYED (whether you own it or not, and whether it is a new model or older horn) these days?

Thanks-

Mark

Well, I guess my fav would be my old Kaiser BBb. I admit though that I have not played many Kaiser tubas. But I have almost always been impressed by their sound anytime anyone has tooted one.
My Kaiser BBb is in some ways similar and in some ways different from my M-W 2155R CC, which can be considered borderline Kaiser. Both have that dense, deep, rich sound, and both are tall rotary horns with large bores. The 2155R plays more 'stiff'; it's not as forgiving in response or pitch, but it is a louder, darker-sounding tuba (yes, it's darker even though it's in CC) with more 'bite' in the sound.
The old Kaiser BBb has an easier response and better scale and has a softer, mellower quality to the sound - a bit more 'pillowy' in sound. And it is a much lighter horn due to it's very thin metal - it's OLD.

OK...a down-to-earth response.

Most of the "Kaiser" stuff that I've played has been Czech. Those types of instruments from Germany seem much more uncommon. I never could figure out the pitch (or the low range) on the Bb's. The scale on all of the huge old rotary C's that I've played has been unusable. Maybe others have stumbled across some better examples.

My old Kaiser BBb has the two-whole-step 4th valve, meaning it equals valves 2&3 instead of 1&3. It's kinda weird to play low C and F with 2&4 instead of just 4, and low B and E 1&4 instead of 2&4. I was wondering why the 4th valve was so sharp, even with the slide pulled, and then I stumbled onto an old thread here and figured it out. Apparently, the shorter two-whole-step 4th valve was somewhat common on old rotary contrabass tubas

[eupher61]

A Kaiser Alex BBb, possibly from the late 50s, was available to me for a while in grad school. Talk about sound...but, as Bloke said, pitch was certainly a challenge, but a little time made it all work out better.

The Rudy 6/4 simply seems amazing. I doubt I'll have much of a chance to play one ever. But, that's no longer my kind of playing anyway.