ARBAN spoke French!

[Amilcare]

The "K" was used as it was not part of the French alphabet.

These men did not write "TU-CU" which would have achieved what you wrote.

I would hope that as a francophone you might help me here.

BTW, a family name is Nussear, a corruption of LeSeur;-)

[Dutch]

The phrase TU-CU, with cu pronounced sharply as in attaque, would not survive in any French method or textbook as it would sound like TU-Q which is an obscenity in French. Tu means you and “Q” , due to its shape, refers to the anus (as in “Les salariés de Quick en ont ras-le-Q !”). In France, TU-CU may be in the mind of a student, but never in the mouth.
In Cajun country this may be different, I just don’t know.

Meanwhile, I wonder if Arban ever travelled abroad and picked up the English “K” like in knickers or kneedrops, that would put T-K in a new perspective.

[Michael Bush]

The "K" was used as it was not part of the French alphabet.

Are you saying it was just a random symbol for an unrelated sound?

Why don't you try writing out a representation of this mysterious sound phonetically. That might help.

[Amilcare]

It's an "anchor tongue." When hummed or "whooshed" there is a hint of a "hard-C" sound.

It must be taught by tongue placement as no spoken language has this sound.

[Michael Bush]

Le francais est ma langue maternelle. Il y a un anglicisme très evident dans vos formulations et dans votre manque de conjugation du mot lire (lis).

I been reading back through what I might of missed in this thread about how to make the sound under discussion, and was amused by this. I never talked nothing but English for a lot of my life, but I done messed up a lot of verbs anyway. I should of been more careful!

It's an "anchor tongue." When hummed or "whooshed" there is a hint of a "hard-C" sound.

It must be taught by tongue placement as no spoken language has this sound.

Okay. I'll play around with it, because I'm curious and will try anything once or twice, but it's probably rather late in the day.

[ghmerrill]

I been reading back through what I might of missed in this thread about how to make the sound under discussion, and was amused by this. I never talked nothing but English for a lot of my life, but I done messed up a lot of verbs anyway. I should of been more careful!

Verbs are over-rated. You've got the prepositions nailed.

[Dutch]

Let’s hope that nobody swallowed his tongue, in an attempt to demonstrate the habits of generations of English-speaking followers of Arban, all misled by their ignorance of the French K.

One wonders if Thomas Leleu (different thread) is a TaKa or a Daga player.
Probably he would think of this discussion as “un caca boudin”.

[JB]

...Thomas Leleu (different thread) ... Probably he would think of this discussion as “un caca boudin”.

+1


(Or would that be ka-ka ?)

[Biggs]

That K is found in NO LANGUAGE AT ALL!

What about Hawaiian?

[Donn]

That K is found in NO LANGUAGE AT ALL!

What about Hawaiian?

Could very well be, especially if we could go back a couple hundred years and get good data on a lot of local dialects. I guess the question is whether `free variation' between K and T includes some intermediate sounds, or really just K or T. Other Polynesian languages likewise, I think, including Tahitian, i.e., French Polynesia ... hm ... coincidence? Could Arban have sailed to Tahiti as Gauguin did a few years later, and there discovered the K that is not really a K?

[Amilcare]

Y'all are missing the point. Those French flute teachers were trying to find a notation for a sound produced when humming or "whooshing" using an anchor tongue.

I have a diagram used by speech pathologists for assisting their work. There is no indicated point at the lower teeth. An anchor tongue consists of placing the tip of the tongue on the lower teeth. The articulation is made against the upper teeth with a point just behind the "anchored" contact point. There is an entire school of sax players that do all their articulation this way. Sigurd Rascher seems to be the founder of this approach.

The back of the tongue has NEVER been used in real brass pedagogy for an articulation.

[Michael Bush]

Y'all are missing the point. Those French flute teachers were trying to find a notation for a sound produced when humming or "whooshing" using an anchor tongue.

That's what I was asking the other day. So you are confirming that the letter K is just a shape in this instance, a random character picked up and pressed into use for this because those particular teachers' native language didn't use that character to denote a sound?

The articulation is made against the upper teeth with a point just behind the "anchored" contact point.

This is a useful description, thank you.

The back of the tongue has NEVER been used in real brass pedagogy for an articulation.

In that case, the list of fake brass teachers is very long and highly distinguished. In fact, it would seem to include pretty much every brass teacher who has worked in living memory. You seem to have an interesting item to add to the tool bag, but let's not get carried away.

[Michael Bush]

oh good... ' going again

Might as well. Many threads that have far less potential than this go on and on and on.

I'm just glad there aren't four or five different threads about this.

[PMeuph]

In that case, the list of fake brass teachers is very long and highly distinguished. In fact, it would seem to include pretty much every brass teacher who has worked in living memory. You seem to have an interesting item to add to the tool bag, but let's not get carried away.

+1

[ralphbsz]

Now I am wondering of theremin players from New York City sound different than elsewhere in the world.

That probably depends on where they get their hands manicured. I could even see fingernail polish affecting the articulation on the theremin (I fooled around with one a long time ago, and found that I had no ability to control it at all).

I'll be quiet now and go back to playing piano. There you just have to press a button, and it either sounds good, or you call a technician to fix it.

[bububassboner]

I really find it interesting that people are looking back to 19th century flute methods for current day brass playing. Anchoring the tongue, to me, sounds similiar to ideas like pushing with the diaphragm. Why would you worry about this stuff? The body is so complex why would you worry about controlling every little bit. Don't control the meat to control the music, control the music to control the meat. We have come a long way since that time. If you really want to study people who knew what they were talking about study Arnold Jacobs. That, in my humble opinion, would be a much better use of your time than worrying about how Mr. Arban talked.

[arpthark]

I really find it interesting that people are looking back to 19th century flute methods for current day brass playing. Anchoring the tongue, to me, sounds similiar to ideas like pushing with the diaphragm. Why would you worry about this stuff? The body is so complex why would you worry about controlling every little bit. Don't control the meat to control the music, control the music to control the meat. We have come a long way since that time. If you really want to study people who knew what they were talking about study Arnold Jacobs. That, in my humble opinion, would be a much better use of your time than worrying about how Mr. Arban talked.

[Sharp]

I'm missing the point!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You would make more sense if you had said it that way.

[SousaSaver]

I can think of a man who tried to find out everything he could regarding physiology, but who also warned against

This is the only post I have read in this thread, so I don't know the context of this comment, but I FULLY agree.