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[Dan Schultz]

Some the posts on this forum seem to be a little on the offense. .......

Of course. I would counter by saying I don't mean to be offensive. But... that would be stretching the truth a bit. I just don't like to stand by and watch as the value of some of these grand old instruments is diminished by flooding the market with reproductions.

Making instruments better for less money would be a good thing but to date this has not seemed to be the case.

[PMeuph]

Just to be perfectly clear...

I see a possibility (as long as the manufacturer doesn't double-cross and - once in production - sell these to other importers) of selling SEVERAL of these to universities in EVERY state of the union. I can see easily selling a couple hundred of these to that market alone (again, funded by sales taxes, other state taxes, and lottery/casino gambling addicts ← many who are federally funded). In my own not-huge-population state (only four modestly-large cities) I could see possibly selling eight or more of these to state universities musicology divisions of university music departments. "Need?" not imo, but - then again - I see state universities regularly discarding sets of perfectly repairable sousaphones and replacing them with Asian sousaphones.

Moreover, I see bringing these to market as brilliant. ' hat's off.

I spent a couple years at a mid-sized canadian university (ca. 25 000 students) with a medium sized music dept (110 students, 10 full time faculty, 20 part time).

One of the students, friend of mine, got a summer job cataloguing and reorganizing the instruments as the university was preparing to move some around and store others. She found a sackbut quartet in perfectly good condition (Purchased 30 years earlier when the composition prof(former trombone player) wanted them and decided to write a piece for them). There was also a bass saxophone and a whole bunch of other oddities.

[bigtubby]

I'd just like to see something original come out of The Orient... just for once.

They say that turnabout is fair play. Perhaps we can commission Conn-Selmer to clone bass and contrabass shengs for export to China. That'll show them!

[PMeuph]

I think this is a good step n the right direction, I've said it before and will quote myself again. To me, the real benefit of chinese manufacturing is not to bring in clones of instruments of horns already available, it's to bring in instruments that are difficult to obtain any more.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=46382&p=401086&hili ... de#p401086" target="_blank

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Had I not just spent a good chunk of change and a play condition on my ophicleide, (Ironically, I received the ophicleide the day Neptune posted his first ophicleide topic) I probably would have bought one.

[ghmerrill]

I just don't like to stand by and watch as the value of some of these grand old instruments is diminished by flooding the market with reproductions.

This hasn't seemed to happen in analogous situations such as the reproduction of vintage Colt or Winchester firearms (often by the Italians rather than the Chinese), but it does change the "market" for the vintage items from a "practical use" market to a "collector" market. In that case, values can actually go up. I'm a bit skeptical that there is enough of a "use" market to make the ophicleide a viable business decision in the longer term rather than more of a flash in the pan, but as you point out, there seems to be a lot of discretionary money around for such things.

Also, in cases like this, production of the items can sometimes create its own markets. It's arguable, for example, that the availability of reasonable-cost western-style single-action revolvers, reproduction lever-action rifles, and things like the Winchester Model 97 pump shotgun fueled the expansion of "cowboy action shooting" clubs and (national and international) organizations that in turn increased the demand for such products. I suppose I can imagine the same thing happening with period musical instruments.

Time will tell.

[Jay Bertolet]

I can't imagine buying one of these myself (I have been involved in exactly one performance over the last 12 years of a piece originally written for Ophicleide) but I know the idea is being circulated. One of my students was working last week with a prominent guest conductor who told him that orchestras were going to purchase these so that their tuba players could start using them when appropriate. I told my student I thought that was nonsense but that was before I saw that Wessex is now importing new ones. I wish them all the best in this endeavor, who knows?

[Dan Schultz]

Sorry... it wasn't really my intention to hi-jack this thread. I think Jonathan is doing all he can to make us 'tubaguys' happy. He's one of a few guys in this business who are doing their best to keep things moving forward and above board... insisting on higher quality instruments at better prices.

At least there aren't any crummy die-cast waterkeys on the ophicleide to break and cause problems! If there ARE any 'pot metal' parts on there please have them changed to real brass with stainless pins.

Hang in there Jonathan!

[bisontuba]

I just don't like to stand by and watch as the value of some of these grand old instruments is diminished by flooding the market with reproductions.

This hasn't seemed to happen in analogous situations such as the reproduction of vintage Colt or Winchester firearms (often by the Italians rather than the Chinese), but it does change the "market" for the vintage items from a "practical use" market to a "collector" market. In that case, values can actually go up. I'm a bit skeptical that there is enough of a "use" market to make the ophicleide a viable business decision in the longer term rather than more of a flash in the pan, but as you point out, there seems to be a lot of discretionary money around for such things.

Also, in cases like this, production of the items can sometimes create its own markets. It's arguable, for example, that the availability of reasonable-cost western-style single-action revolvers, reproduction lever-action rifles, and things like the Winchester Model 97 pump shotgun fueled the expansion of "cowboy action shooting" clubs and (national and international) organizations that in turn increased the demand for such products. I suppose I can imagine the same thing happening with period musical instruments.

Time will tell.

Hi-
Very interesting. I'm curious--are the repro vintage Colt and Winchester firearms cheaper, the same price, or more expensive than the original items?
Thanks-
Mark

[Lingon]

What about finish on ophicleides? I think I saw something about that somewhere but am not able to find it again. For ordinary brass instruments, i.e. tubas trombones etc, we are aware of what different finishes do for the sound. But how does an ophicleide behave when using it raw or when something is put on the metal?

[Donn]

What about finish on ophicleides? I think I saw something about that somewhere but am not able to find it again. For ordinary brass instruments, i.e. tubas trombones etc, we are aware of what different finishes do for the sound. But how does an ophicleide behave when using it raw or when something is put on the metal?

Probably no difference, same as any wind instrument?

[ad4m]

Silver plate seems a great idea to me as the dynamic range on a nickel plated ophi is limited, the silver would surely add to the dynamics tenfold. Nick Byrne has a silver plated ophi for that reason at least.

[imperialbari]

This replica may have the effect of raising the value of period ophicleides. Apparently built in heavier gauge brass the replica may have serious players wanting for the real thing in light gauge brass.

Nickel plating may be good for playing titles like ‘I'm peeling’, but hardly for general use.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

Jinbao does nickel plating (ref: those nickel plated Hirsbrunner Bb knock-offs)...

Most Gautrot ophicleides that I've working on are nickel plated. Maybe (??) this would be a better option than silver plate.

I am dubious about making nickel plated due to some people having nickel allege - something that was probably unknown when the original ophicleides were made.

Also my experience with nickel-plated tubas, is that they do not resonate so well. For those two reasons, Wessex will sell no nickel-plated instruments

[bisontuba]

This replica may have the effect of raising the value of period ophicleides. Apparently built in heavier gauge brass the replica may have serious players wanting for the real thing in light gauge brass.

Nickel plating may be good for playing titles like ‘I'm peeling’, but hardly for general use.

Klaus

Hi-
OTOH, unless an original is a 12 key oph or an American signed maker--Graves, Wright, etc., I think the value of period 'clydes' will remain the same in value or most likely drop( For example, my 12 Keyed Graves, Winchester NH
ophicleide cost me $2800 plus about $2k+ in restoration, but what a rare horn! Now residing in a very fine collection...). Unless ultra rare, why will someone spend $1500-2500 for a period unrestored Anon. instrument and then pay money to have it restored ( NOT cheap) not knowing how it will play when you can buy a brand new 11 key oph for the same/less money..I fear 'oph futures' are going to drop....
Mark

[nycbone]

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[Mojo workin']

I'd just like to see something original come out of The Orient... just for once.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_gunpowder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_paper

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compass

Just so long as you don't cite movable type. The Chinese had it before the West (circa 1040 A.D.), but it was Johannes Guttenberg that invented the mechanically superior printing press (1450), with the intention of publishing books with it.

[TexTuba]

How is this thread still going?

[imperialbari]

Any lead on the Chinese brass?

Klaus

[MartyNeilan]

and absolutely no one has demonstrated allergic reactions to "raw unlacquered brass"

I played for almost two straight years on a Bach 12M that belonged to my teacher. 100% raw brass rim, seemingly polished. I never had a single problem.

Your milage may vary.

I'm allergic to cats.

As long as I cook them thoroughly, I never have any problems with them.

[bbocaner]

Any lead on the Chinese brass?

Klaus

Us and german brass has lead in it, too. Doesn't seem to bother anyone (although I'm a little hesitant to use an unplanted mouthpiece for a long period of time because of this)