Let's talk about Kanstul tubas

[Cthuba]

Well by numerous I can truly only think of two-ish. I should retract that previous statement. But there is a fellow on tubenet that just sold a very high end Mienl-Weston and is now seeking an Eastman or a Wisemann.

My apologies.

[Donn]

Kanstul is apparently manufacturing and selling large volumes of instruments overseas, particularly in China.

Just a semantic fine point, the above seems to be saying that the manufacturing occurs overseas, though I'm pretty sure you mean only that they're selling them overseas. As in
"Kanstul is apparently manufacturing large volumes of instruments and selling them them overseas, particularly in China." Which by the way is pretty darned amazing.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

I went to the factory in April when I was playing in L.A. My overall impression is that they are amazing instruments. I think they don't get the tuba numbers because they are really bad at advertising, and are not very interested in giving horns to people for free. And L.A. certainly has a number of players who are getting free instruments from certain manufacturers. I also know that they sell lots of marching instruments. I thought that their valves were incredible. I was playing a BBb tuba on the road so that's where my 'tuba ears' were at that point. I played the big BBb, it lined up amazingly well on the tuner, except the 'G' first line, but a pull fixed that. The smaller BBb was great too. I liked the CC's and I thought they were really great on the tuner also. My favorite horn was their travel tuba. The bell unscrews and the entire instrument fits into a suitcase. It's a bit bigger than a Yamaha 621 and responds and sounds amazing, both the CC and BBb, although they had kind of cobbled the BBb prototype together so I could play it, they were both fantastic. I don't own one only because as I'm slowing down my road career, I'm not sure what equipment I will need for my 'less road' career, but when I figure that out, I'm going to return to the Kanstul factory and choose accordingly.

[pecktime]

Is the CC travel tuba on the website? I can't seem to find it.

[ArnoldGottlieb]

http://bethmitchelltubastudio.com/BethM ... _TUBA.html" target="_blank

[bisontuba]

BTW, Dillon Music has a used Kanstul silver plated BBb 33 and Eb 66-S tuba for sale, and just listed a used lacquer Kanstul 80-S F tuba for sale.....FYI....
Mark

[thevillagetuba]

BTW, Dillon Music has a used Kanstul silver plated BBb 33 and Eb 66-S tuba for sale, and just listed a used lacquer Kanstul 80-S F tuba for sale.....FYI....
Mark

Came across this video of Beth Mitchell on an 80-S on YouTube earlier: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWKbnCnArFU" target="_blank

[bort]

Thank you all for the great information. More than I can reply to, that's for sure!

Sounds like some people love them and some people don't... just like anything else. And to whoever said that Kanstul is terrible at advertising, I'd agree with that. I'm not sure what I expect out of tuba advertising, but their Website is underwhelming.

I'll have to try one out sometime.

And for crying out loud, Zig, make a rotary tuba already!

[bort]

What specifically does he have against rotary horns? A business reason, or something else?

I hope the man has a long and healthy life... But hope he makes a rotary tuba during that life.

Maybe I need to convince the Chinese purchasers to request rotary-only...

[Jose the tuba player]

.

[bort]

Hrmph. That's an awesome answer. The reply should be "make better rotors." Or better linkages. I'm sure their rotors are probably just fine as is.

[SousaWarrior9]

In addition to rotary tubas, I would like to see Kanstul put out a sousaphone, even though I know their main focus is drum corps style marching instruments, I would love to play a sousaphone that is built as well and sounds as good as their marching tubas and contras.
Also, if anyone has any more information/pictures on that new 'flying tuba' that they make, I'd love to see it. It looks very intriguing to me.

[bort]

Back in the day, FE Olds (for whom Zig Kanstul worked) was never really into the idea of producing his own rotary valves. Eventually the company did so, but by then they were headed toward bankruptcy. I think that Zig must have picked up that lack of interest in rotary valves from Mr. Olds or perhaps Mr. Reynolds. (Not sure if Zig ever actually knew Mr. Olds.)

Bernie Marston explains the situation at Olds for decades, and you can see how this might have influenced Mr. Kanstul in his pursuit of piston valves over rotors.

http://rouses.net/trumpet/OLDS_VALVES.html

Interesting read! Thanks!

[bort]

In addition to rotary tubas, I would like to see Kanstul put out a sousaphone

Whoa... I didn't realize that they didn't have one! Seems a little odd to me, especially if they're going after college marching band dollars. Very few college bands want to deal with contras.

[hduong]

Kanstuls play great, only issues I've had are hearing back from them on getting parts. Also, the screws on my lead pipe need to be tightened every week, and one of them already went missing.

[Lee Stofer]

My apologies on the poorly-constructed sentence! Kanstul's manufacturing is in Anaheim, CA. They are selling in China, not manufacturing there.

As for the comparison between the 33-S and the 90-S, I think that the 5-valve CC may respond a little faster than the 5-valve BBb, but I cannot say for sure. I have sold more of the model 33-S in a 4-valve configuration, something that Zig did not want to promote for some unknown reason. The 4-front-valve BBb is simpler, lighter-weight, and I think , responds more freely than the 5-valve version. Personally, if I were going to take a Kanstul out and play it on a gig, my favorites would be the 33-T or 4-front-piston 33 BBb, the standard model 90-S CC, the model 80 F and the Grand CC. I just haven't spent enough time with the Grand BBb or Grand F to evaluate them.

Building a rotor version of an instrument may not seem like a big deal, but R & D usually is incredibly expensive. Mr. Kanstul told me that they had spent $150,000.00 in tooling and labor to bring the first prototype of the model 33-T into existence. From that, they were able to come up with the 66- and 90- series without too much more expense, but building tubas is a very expensive, labor-intensive and not very profitable enterprise. Due to the curiousity of myself and others, I am looking at the possibility of making a one-off, 5-rotor version of my CC tuba in the next year. I will have to get some longer tubes and do a lot of hand-bending and fitting to make a euro-style valveset, and will have to fabricate a number of braces. It is completely a different mindset from building a piston valveset, and there's no guarantee of how it will play. I do not blame Mr. Kanstul for manufacturing what is selling very well now, and not worrying with inventing another valveset.

To respond to the comment about Chinese manufacturing, I realize that they have made significant strides in tuba manufacturing over the past 15 years, going from quality that was laughable to instruments that can now actually be used in serious ensembles. However, I have two concerns. First, my understanding is that they have little or no interest in the western history of manufacture, but are for the most part taking iconic western instruments and reverse-engineering them, figuring out how to use the most modern and efficient manufacturing processes to make parts that look like the older western counterparts, then assemble them into an instrument that looks like a western instrument. They understand valve and slide tolerances, and with that the instruments are now quite playable. However, instead of using the finest (and most expensive) metals for the greatest acoustic effect, and for durability and corrosion-resistance, the alloy choices they are using seem to be based upon the lowest price. One gets what one pays for. I did not realize the difference that the highest-quality alloys make until I owned Rudolf Meinl and Thein instruments. The quality of these instruments was apparent in that they were so corrosion-resistant and durable, and were profoundly resonant with their own signature sounds. I have also found a similar degree of quality and sophistication in vintage instruments by Besson, Alexander, Boosey & Hawkes, York, Conn and Martin. When the Chinese build an instrument that can play like my Martin, I will be really impressed.

[Ken Crawford]

When the Chinese build an instrument that can play like my Martin, I will be really impressed.

I traded my Martin for a BMB...because my BMB sounds better than my Martin did imho.

[Tubaman4]

Thank you so much Lee for being so informative. With this information I am leaning towards the 33s then.

[bort]

Lee, thank you very much for the great information. Reading your posts reminds me of how HUGE the difference is between someone like yourself who KNOWS stuff about stuff, and someone like me who... well, you get the point.

That's a good point about the startup costs involved, and while I know it's expensive, it's not my business, and it's easy for me to say what someone else should do with their money. Point taken... I'd like to think there's a market for it, but yeah, $150k+ would take a lot of tubas to be profitable.

As we've discussed, I'd LOVE to see how your rotary tuba turns out, but unfortunately it's just not in my budget now. Maybe I'll have some kind of extreme financial good fortune by the time you're ready to sell it. Either way, I'd love to at least play test it once you have it built!

One last work about Kanstul, then I think I'm ready to wrap this up -- I have a lot of respect for them to be able to manufacture musical instruments in the USA, and California is NOT a cheap place to do this. I'm glad they've found some recent success, and hope they can keep it up and be a globally relevant company for many years to come.

[Jerryleejr]

Coming from a king 2341, I'm gonna try a 33S this weekend. I'd love to keep the made in the USA going...

JJ