Edgy (Marching Band) Sousaphone Sound

[Dan Schultz]

Here is a gadget I fiddle with once in a while when I want to get many different sounds without having to work too hard:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dl ... 1005977853" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Dan, how do you hook up your tuba to that?....just use a mic or what?

I used to use a Barcus-Barry transducer mounted in a mouthpiece with pre-amp but found I could get just as good results from a mic just outside the bell. I've devised a universal holder for a Audio-Technica 'Studio' mic with the Korg effects unit in-line before the mixer/amp. It's sort of fun to play in two octaves at the same time!

[Tuboss2]

When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?

You just hit the nail right on the head!!

It sounds like sh*t to me..........Nothing short of overblown & DISTORTED
Good tone should be first & foremost!!! Playing loud should still be done within that tonal range.
Overblowing a sousaphone (like in these youtube videos) makes a giant "kazoo sound" Doesn't even
sound like a sousaphone any longer

Maybe I'm just old school, when it was about music..........and not just loud noise

Years ago, someone on the board (I think it may have been DP) described what a Sousaphone should sound like. As I recall, the words were "pillowy" and "blossomy". I think that was an excellent description.

The concept of blatty edginess in this thread is disturbing to me as a musician.

Ace

Well, I could understand how older people aren't very fond of this sound. It just doesn't suit them. But as people have said it has it's along with other styles.
The Blatty edginess shouldn't be taken so out of proportion that it sounds like a kazoo. So yes. You have to be careful because there is a fine line between edgy and nasty.

[GC]

The kazoo sound comes in when so much air is forced through in such a short period of time that the embouchure can't keep up. The buzz is overcome by the sheer volume of air ramming the lips out of the way. Some of these folks seem to think that sheer volume of air is what people want. It's not. Sound is what people want, and more buzz is more important than simple air throughput.

The loudest person I ever heard was a summer camp tuba teacher (a Jacobs student, incidentally) who was asked by an orchestra conductor to put out as much volume as he could playing the Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin. He startled the conductor by more or less covering up the rest of the orchestra, including three gut-busting trombonists. He blew so hard he almost made himself sick, was on the edge of losing control but didn't quite, and he did NOT kill his tone. The man had a lip of iron and great endurance, and tone was always job one for him.

I looked up a dozen or so major college sousaphone sections' videos, and most major colleges have sousaphone sections that can put out a ton of volume without destroying their tones. Some of them can be a bit harsh and blatty, but they don't butcher their tones like some of the ones mentioned earlier.

[Tuboss2]

The kazoo sound comes in when so much air is forced through in such a short period of time that the embouchure can't keep up. The buzz is overcome by the sheer volume of air ramming the lips out of the way. Some of these folks seem to think that sheer volume of air is what people want. It's not. Sound is what people want, and more buzz is more important than simple air throughput.

The loudest person I ever heard was a summer camp tuba teacher (a Jacobs student, incidentally) who was asked by an orchestra conductor to put out as much volume as he could playing the Prelude to Act III of Lohengrin. He startled the conductor by more or less covering up the rest of the orchestra, including three gut-busting trombonists. He blew so hard he almost made himself sick, was on the edge of losing control but didn't quite, and he did NOT kill his tone. The man had a lip of iron and great endurance, and tone was always job one for him.

I looked up a dozen or so major college sousaphone sections' videos, and most major colleges have sousaphone sections that can put out a ton of volume without destroying their tones. Some of them can be a bit harsh and blatty, but they don't butcher their tones like some of the ones mentioned earlier.

Great post GC. So what your suggesting is stronger embouchure. Keep the buzz going and not let the buzz die or else the kazoo like sound happens? And that's pretty dang impressive for that guy to cover up 3 trombones like that. I could imagine he was blowin the life out of his tuba. And how would you(well this question is for anyone honestly) suggest that one makes his embouchure stronger in order to withstand the amount of air that you are pushing out pure phrase/breath?

Also, goodness I am worn out after my session today, playing loud sure does take a toll on ya.
And no I'm not from Missouri. I'm from Texas.

[Lew]

]When did that sort of playing start to become: A) acceptable B) desirable?
You just hit the nail right on the head!!

It sounds like sh*t to me..........Nothing short of overblown & DISTORTED
Good tone should be first & foremost!!! Playing loud should still be done within that tonal range.
Overblowing a sousaphone (like in these youtube videos) makes a giant "kazoo sound" Doesn't even
sound like a sousaphone any longer

Maybe I'm just old school, when it was about music..........and not just loud noise

Years ago, someone on the board (I think it may have been DP) described what a Sousaphone should sound like. As I recall, the words were "pillowy" and "blossomy". I think that was an excellent description.

The concept of blatty edginess in this thread is disturbing to me as a musician.

Ace

You mean just as Sousa intended? To be the icing over top the cake?

The "edgy" sound is just a particular style, just like certain "heavy" or "distorted" guitar playing - it all has it's place somewhere. I certainly wouldn't want a down-tuned, distorted 11-string bass playing smooth jazz, but it would certainly work for other genres.

Exactly my thoughts, but then I am old enough to be a grandfather twice. What also bothers me about the first link is that about half of them are wearing the sousaphones incorrectly, with the body across the front of their bodies.

[kontrabass]

The edgy blattiness to me has its roots in the outdoor New Orleans brass band sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z37oCs0lggg" target="_blank

I hear a lot of the same blatty, out-of-tune edginess here that I heard in the marching band videos. Would YOU walk up to these musicians and tell them their way of music making is UNACCEPTABLE? that they're playing the instruments the WRONG WAY?

Honestly I can't believe this thread. A sousaphone is just a piece of metal, it's capable of making all kinds of sounds and all kinds of music. Are we seriously debating which ones are the "right" ones for the instrument? To me it's as ridiculous as debating which colours of paint should be used in paintings.

If a particular group of people want to blow through a piece of metal in a particular way that makes them and their friends feel good, then power to them.

[Tubaryan12]

The edgy blattiness to me has its roots in the outdoor New Orleans brass band sound.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z37oCs0lggg" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

I hear a lot of the same blatty, out-of-tune edginess here that I heard in the marching band videos. Would YOU walk up to these musicians and tell them their way of music making is UNACCEPTABLE? that they're playing the instruments the WRONG WAY?

Honestly I can't believe this thread. A sousaphone is just a piece of metal, it's capable of making all kinds of sounds and all kinds of music. Are we seriously debating which ones are the "right" ones for the instrument? To me it's as ridiculous as debating which colours of paint should be used in paintings.

If a particular group of people want to blow through a piece of metal in a particular way that makes them and their friends feel good, then power to them.

Couldn't have said it better myself

[k001k47]

http://youtu.be/KO4lO3UAHtk?t=2m

Now there's some edge I can dig.

[David Richoux]

http://youtu.be/KO4lO3UAHtk?t=2m

Now there's some edge I can dig.

And if you asked a orchestral trumpeter or music professor about those smears, growl tones, slurs and loud "out of tune" notes that Louis Armstrong was well known for playing - what would he be likely to say? Horrible kazoo noises?

[tubajoe]

Here's some serious music that just wouldn't work with a dark sound:

http://youtu.be/JzDfCbDduPQ" target="_blank

http://youtu.be/7FVqwhkLI_0" target="_blank

[Tubaryan12]

Here's some serious music that just wouldn't work with a dark sound:

http://youtu.be/JzDfCbDduPQ" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

http://youtu.be/7FVqwhkLI_0" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Man, I wouldn't want to play for crowds that excited to hear me play....Oh, wait....I did. It was awesome!

Tubaryan "now the crowds are smaller and more subdued" 12

[Tuboss2]

I've always like that Balkan type tuba sound. Really compact sound in Balkan music.
Sometime I try to play with it as well, still working on it. Anyways, I don't know if y'all want to or not, but please critique this video I made yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuYq7IUatRw
Questions I have are how loud am I playing
Does it sound good?
What are things I might have done wrong and how can I fix em?

Thanks.

[bigbob]

I've always like that Balkan type tuba sound. Really compact sound in Balkan music.
Sometime I try to play with it as well, still working on it. Anyways, I don't know if y'all want to or not, but please critique this video I made yesterday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuYq7IUatRw
Questions I have are how loud am I playing
Does it sound good?
What are things I might have done wrong and how can I fix em?

Thanks.

A little blatty but you also had some nice notes in there keep on a practicing.... your last seccion sounded the best as far as my uneducated ear can tell<s>.....BB

[Tuboss2]

Thanks. Any other replies?

[Tuboss2]

I like that first one, it seems like like the tuba part is just a really fast om-pa basically. I should be able to figure that out by ear most likely.

Any other critiques on the my video that I posted on page 19?

[Untersatz]

And if you asked a orchestral trumpeter or music professor about those smears, growl tones, slurs and loud "out of tune" notes that Louis Armstrong was well known for playing - what would he be likely to say? Horrible kazoo noises?

The "Kazoo Sound" was referring to the sousaphone being overblown so bad that the sound was distorted & at the same
time playing so high (almost in the range of a trumpet). That's what most people were objecting to.......NOT the magical
sounds of Louis Armstrong or any other jazz greats for that matter.

[The Big Ben]

I like that first one, it seems like like the tuba part is just a really fast om-pa basically. I should be able to figure that out by ear most likely.

I think you would have to be an old fart like me to reeeelly understand how cool that first one is. The tune is originally written and recorded by a band named Steppenwolf and its name is "Born To Be Wild". BTBW was the opening theme from a rather famous film from 1968 named "Easy Rider". It's about the fall of 60s idealism and how The Establishment (aka The Man) is out to get everybody and it is communicated through two guys on motorcycles who are just trying to be free, man. Should be on Netflix. The opening scene has the two bikers on their Harley choppers blasting down the highway with their hair blowing in the wind. BTBW is playing in the background.

It is rated "R" because of some drug use (it's about the 60s, you know) so maybe you need to get your Mommy to watch it with you.

Jeff "Old enough to have seen it in a movie theatre" Benedict

[bigtubby]

I've always like that Balkan type tuba sound.

Play this at full volume. Love it!

This is great - my favorite moments are between the Jake/Elwood cameo at 2:37 and the Citroen lorry at 2:44, the whole thing is lots of fun!

One of my favorite Eastern European takes on American music with "fast om-pa", from just North of the Balkans. Perhaps a bit more Klezmer than Gypsie ... and the vocalist being the blown out one.

[David Richoux]

Perhaps a bit more Klezmer than Gypsie ... and the vocalist being the blown out one.

If you research the whole Balkan Brass thing you will find amazing crossovers between Muslim, Roma, Christian and Jewish musicians - much of what popular music now is has been influenced by this cultural blend! (Tin Pan Alley was almost all "Closet Klez" BTW.)

Check out this performance - http://youtu.be/3hxFXJ4KAK4

[bigtubby]

... (Tin Pan Alley was almost all "Closet Klez" BTW.) ...

Indeed. The (very quiet but unmistakable) Eastern European / Eastern Mediterranean influence in US music and culture has always amazed me. Especially Jewish and Roma. Everywhere from Tin Pan Alley influencing Dixieland to Django/more modern jazz.

Pop culture? Theda Bara, Marx Brothers, Howard Brothers, Jack Benny, Gabor Sisters, Mel Brooks, Danny Thomas, Gilda Radner, Robert Zimmerman, Nina Hartley, Andy Kaufman, Jon Stewart ... Oy, where to stop?

How about a bit of modern Eastern Mediterranean surf music?


G'Night.