Tonal Comparison: MW45slp, Yama822F, & Firebird F

[Ed Jones]

After you dump all over a low C in an important performance on a "German" F tuba, you will wish you had your Yamaha back.

[Tom]

If you like the Yamaha playability, want a low register that has a "C," and a more "German" sound, you really should take a look at the Meinl Weston 45-SLZ F tuba. It's essentially the rotor version of the SLP (a fantastic tuba in its own right, IMHO).

[MikeMason]

After you dump all over a low C in an important performance on a "German" F tuba, you will wish you had your Yamaha back.

[Steve Marcus]

It means that you'll be able to order the Firebird with 5 OR 6 valves.

Roger says that WWBW will be carrying only the 6-valve version.

[Mark]

Okay.....so another thought on tonal parameters......what does the difference of "gold" and "yellow" brass do to the tone of an instrument?

Some will say nothing. I tend to think gold brass has a darker tone.

[MaryAnn]

whatwazit I played up at WWBW? I think it was the mfone 281. Also played an SLP, and maybe anuddr F. I did like the 281, which was in gold brass, better than my MW 182, but only because the low C was marginally easier to play. I doubt I'll dump my 182.
FWIW, I was highly unimpressed with the slp.

I have compared, sided by side, a yellow brass same model of horn with mine, which is gold brass. There was a clear difference in sound quality, the gold brass being darker. Funny, on the horn, I kind of liked the yellow brass sound better, up close. It seemed to have more overtones, a more complex sound. So darker is not necessarily better...depends on what you like and want to hear. Same goes for "vanilla Jap" compared to "rotory Kraut."

MA

[Gorilla Tuba]

I used to own a YFB-822, Now I own a MW 45S (not LP, or SLZ). This horn is listed by MW as a 6/4 F, like the SLP and SLZ, but it isn't quite as big. When I got the 822 I was looking to have "one horn to do it all." It worked fairly well for that purpose. But I soon felt that CC was just better for me for quintets and large ensembles. Upon getting back to CC, the 822 got neglected, and soon sold. After trying several F tubas to use for solos and light repertoire, I settled in with my MW 45S.

Lessons learned (for me, at least):

If I chose to have just 1 tuba, it would be the YFB-822.

But, since I use a larger CC as a "primary" horn, the MW 45S works better to contrast and complimentary my CC sound. Therefor, for me, it is a better 2nd tuba.

Yes, the low Db and C are air hogs. But they are by no means unplayable. I do not have to push or pull any slides, unlike most other horns.

FWIW, I do not think the YFB822 has a boring or character-less sound. Enough great players have chosen that instrument to demonstrate that it can be played with a terrific sound. It may be true that Jim Self, Skip Gray, Charles Villaruba, and other could make a trash can sound good, but they certainly wouldn't choose an inferior instrument.

[tubaman5150]

Same goes for "vanilla Jap" compared to "rotory Kraut."

You mean "Blah-maha" and "Mira-fart"?

Doc (who'd like to try a 281)

I'm fond of Yamahammer and Smear-a-phone tubas. Booty Meinls are great horns too. Lets not forget about Vomitz tubas.

I'm very fond of my Smear-a-phone 188 and 181 tubas.

[Rick Denney]

One of the most stable "low" C's on a "German F tuba is the (fingered) 6-2-3 "low" C on an old 6V B&S "Symphonie".

5-3 works similarly on the 5-valve model Symphonie, but the fifth slide has to be tuned for that and not for a 1-4 Bb (for which it is a little too short anyway, as you know). When I tune 5 for the 5-3 C, I play Bb 1-2-4. Whether I do that or play C with 4 alone depends on how much time I've had on the tuba lately. 5-3 is a little more stable, but everything is better when I'm working properly and can play the C in tune (and stably) with just the fourth valve.

Rick "who will someday have a sixth valve added to his B&S" Denney

[Rick Denney]

If I could find a 621 that played as well as those two I mentioned (of the many Blah-mahas I've tried), I could be sold, but they were rare. I have yet to play an 822 that really grabs me.

The 621's are great little F tubas, and I find that mine is easier to play than my B&S. It does not have that ethereal sound in the high register that the B&S has. But it has plenty of tonal variability and a little more presence. The low register is incredibly responsive, especially considering the small size.

What it does NOT have is real carrying power. I get much more projection into a noisy sound field with the Symphonie than with the 621 at the same effort. I bought the B&S because my conductor complained that my sound was not getting out with the 621 for those transcriptions where the upper tuba part sounded better on an F. In a small ensemble or a miked setting, it's great.

In response to the original thread, the 281 Miraphone prototype that I played was a nicely balanced instrument with a big, dark sound and a very responsive lower register. What steered me away from it (other than price) was that it lacked the character of the Symphonie. The B&S had a fatter sound--a sound that makes you want to drink beer--except up high where the sound is unlike any other F tuba I've played. I specifically (this time) did not want an F tuba that sounded or played like a contrabass. The 45SLP and the 822 both suffered from the same fault, in my view, though in different ways. They seemed to be designed to make contrabass sounds, but with an easier upper register. If that's what I had wanted from a big F (and it's exactly what I wanted in a little F--and that's why I bought the 621), I'd be wanting to save up for the Willson.

Rick "who thinks people who want a CC-sounding F keep forgetting about the Willson" Denney

[Rick Denney]

If I ever get within throwing distance of you or Joe, I'll be wanting to try your B&S's. Symphonies are pretty rare these days. I'd certainly consider one. Gotta find one and have money all at the same time, that's all.

I've seen the 5-valve models sell for under $3000, and I paid only slightly more than that for mine. They may not come up often, but they aren't that expensive when they do.

Joe is closer to you and you should try his before mine. Lee Hipp has played both and he thought mine had similar characteristics, but not the same magic as Joe's. I'm real curious to get mine and Joe's in the same room someday to see if we can figure that one out (not that it matters to me). That will happen when I jump on the sixth valve project, but for that I'm waiting on pretty much the same thing you are.

Rick "with lots of things clamoring for cash at the moment" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Are these pre-PT B&Ss you are talking about?

Yup. I don't recall when B&S F tubas were first called Parantucci, but their innovation was to make them play bigger by openning up the bore through the second valve. Some think that in gaining whatever it is that they gained, they also lost something essential to their character. Others think just the opposite. I surely do prefer my old Symphonie to the PT-10's I've played, though. In fact, the Symphonie surprised me--I wasn't in the market for a B&S at all until I came upon it. I had been looking for a Miraphone 181.

Rick "thinking the first PT's were in the 1982-4 range" Denney

[windshieldbug]

What'll get me a job is my sound, not how well my tuba plays

As long as you can play it on time and in tune with the right blend, yes...

(and I went with the 45's sound)

[Rick Denney]

Rick, Do you have anything else you might like to add to the whole tonal comparison talk?? I always like hearing your opinions!!!

Best to go back to what I said at the time I compared what became my Symphonie F to other F's, undistorted by fuzzy memory.

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/feb2004 ... 63268.html

I didn't try a MW45 at the time. I do remember liking the MW46, however.

Rick "who has not played around on lots of F tubas since then" Denney

[Rick Denney]

45slz = 5 valves

46slz = 6 valves

45slp = 5 valves

46slp = 6 valves (Titan)

Just for clarification, the SLZ is the very large rotary F tuba with a tall body. It's not like the SLP, which is a piston tuba. The SLZ has a taller body than the S, and both of those have a larger bore than the standard 4x F tuba. The second digit is the number of valves, and the 4 means it's a 6/4 F tuba, but the real differences are in those letters.

Rick "suggesting Sean's links to manufacturers on the Shops page for those wanting specs" Denney

[ahowle]

Matt,
You can play my 45SLP to see if you like it. Remind me next time you see me and I'll let you give it a spin.

[Tom]

Look here:

http://www.meinl-weston.com/ftubas.htm

[Dave Roberts]

You might also want to consider the Willson F. I've been playing a 3200 RS forever. Just didn't dig the Yamaha at all. I think Dave Fedderly has one for sale.