Can the pt-6 be considered a b.a.t?

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:18 pm

... develop a standard system ...

I really think the Roy Benson TB-202 should be in there somewhere. There aren't many B-Tubas running around (green ones at that!)

http://www.musik-service.de/Roy-Benson- ... 639en.aspx

quinterbourne · Post by **quinterbourne** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 9:27 pm

Well, the original question is "Can the pt-6 be considered a b.a.t?" The answer to that question is yes. However, a little kid could very easily think that a Yamaha 621 is a BAT. It is a matter of perception and will vary from person to person.

A person who, for the most part, plays on a tuba that is 4/4 or smaller... the PT-6 would most likely be considered a BAT. I've played one, I thought it was a very big tuba. If you're the type of person who likes to play their Yorkbrunner (or equivalent) for most applications, then a PT-6 may seem like somewhat of a small tuba.

What "Tubaguy56" mentioned about Alan Baer is important to note. In an audition situation, you will want to play on a horn that you are comfortable with and one that is easy to play musically. For this reason, it may be a good idea to bring a 4/4 or 5/4 into the audition. Often the audition committee consists of many non brass players, including the musical director... they don't necessarily want to hear the excerpts the way you would play them in the orchestra (plus, you are probably in a smaller room... not the concert hall the concerts will be in). However, once you get the gig, you may need to move up to larger horn (that, of course, depends on the orchestra).

SplatterTone · Post by **SplatterTone** » Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:35 pm

Being a German site, their B probably means Bb.

Ah! I forgot about the H=B and B=B-flat thing (as in BACH). I didn't know how far that extended outside the organ crowd. I assumed (my bad) that a site featuring a green Roy Benson would not invest much effort in differentiating B and Bb. (What's a piddly half step among friends?) I just checked the meinl-weston.de site: B-tuba it is.

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 5:51 pm

Just to take the que offered by Rick Denney...

The combination "Kaiser-whatever" is a slightly oldfashioned way of expressing anything awe-inspiring or (at least) strikingly positive. Basically, two German expressions come to my mind that have survived the test of time:
Kaiserwetter (weather as depicted on many postcards: bright blue sky with few clouds that fit decorously in the picture), and -you guessed it- Kaisertuba.
There may have been more, especially at the time of Kaiser (=Emperor) Wilhelm II (and Austrian Kaiser Franz-Josef), which I believe to be the time when Kaisertuben came up in the first place.

However, I should think that expression for a truly large horn is becoming more and more uncommon over here.

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:06 pm

Yes, in the same way that the phrase king-sized is also falling out of use.

Hmm. Maybe we could transfer the names used to size Martin guitars, and call the BATs the "Grand Orchestral" sized tubas.

Then again, maybe not!

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:12 pm

With king-size falling out of favor, maybe we should call them SST's: Super-Sized Tubas!

(or perhaps Trans-Fatty Tubas... )

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Tue Oct 03, 2006 7:42 pm

iiipopes wrote:Maybe we could transfer the names used to size Martin guitars, and call the BATs the "Grand Orchestral" sized tubas.

I thought that was the polite name. If a member of the audience asks about my big Neptune, I always say it is a 'Grand Orchestral Tuba'

sc_curtis · Post by **sc_curtis** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:19 am

DP wrote:... like a tall blonde, simply owning a big horn won't make you sumpin you're not

Yeah, you're right, but you can certainly have a whole-lotta fun with it!!!

Tubaguy56 · Post by **Tubaguy56** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 12:48 am

i bought a gronitz sized horn BECAUSE I needed something I can play the **** out of, nothing beats overpowering a 150 piece orchestra with a 30 person brass section, when you're the only tuba (oh, and on one paticular occasion organ...no wait, make that 3....)

Ace · Post by **Ace** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:33 am

I fail to understand the merits of "overpowering" the orchestra. In my area, I've heard regularly the likes of Floyd Cooley, Jeff Anderson, Zack Spellman, Peter Wahrhaftig, Tony Clements------they could have but never did overpower their orchestras. Take a "lesson" from them. Please.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:49 pm

DP wrote:... like a tall blonde, simply owning a big horn won't make you sumpin you're not

What it makes you is the owner of a big horn.

But even those of us who can't play worth beans still get some benefit from the big horn. If we can avoid woofiness (always the challenge with a big tuba), we can get depth and roundness to a greater extent than with smaller instruments. In fact, a big tuba might help a mediocre player as much as it helps a pro, in proportion to their abilities.

Rick "who gets a little closer to the sound in his head with a big tuba" Denney

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 1:53 pm

iiipopes wrote:No. It's a 5/4. BATs are at least 6/4.

Then what is a "fungo BAT"?

Tubaguy56 · Post by **Tubaguy56** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:22 pm

You people will jump on anything I say without actually READING it. I said I needed something that can overpower an orchestra, I didn't say that was ALL that I did. HOWEVER, If I'm playing 1812 overture, I have to be heard over an entire orchestra and a cannon. There are plenty of places where it's appropriate to play that loud, the low E in Uranus, for example. or how about the low part in B minor in Jupiter? I could go on... oh AND ONE MORE THING, for Ace, I have taken lessons with them, like, literally, Tony was my teacher for 6 years and Peter for two, and I 've talked to Jeff before as well. You should hear what they say, not just how they play, overpower can be a mentality as well as an actually dynamic in relation to orchestra. Granted, you are misreading what I'm saying, even overpowering, I just mean so that you can clearly tell the tuba is playing. oh, and speaking of tony, there are places where he actually used to mark in my music, in huge capital letters, BYAO-Blow your *** off, as well as other things along that line of thought, so before you lecture me about what the tuba players in our area play like, maybe YOU should take a "lesson" from them, oh, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to put quotation marks around that....

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:17 pm

keg84 wrote:why do the most retarded topics get the most replys and discussion. this should have stop at the 3rd post.

What's the deal? What else is there to talk about? What subjects do you find not "retarded"? If you read and post in those threads and not in threads like these, they will indeed be shorter, and you will not have wasted your time.

Rick "amused by those who lengthen threads in order to complain about their length" Denney

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:22 pm

Tubaguy56 wrote:You people will jump on anything I say without actually READING it.

Chill, dude. Remember that each post represents ideas that are NOT expressed, in addition to those that ARE expressed. General responses may not be relevant to you (only you can determine that), but they may be relevant to ten other guys who might have used the same words but meant something different.

Credential wars are pointless, because those DON'T represent ideas. Anger is even more pointless, because Ace wasn't necessarily even talking to you, whether or not he used your words as a springboard for his ideas. Don't take things personally on an Internet forum.

Rick "who studied with some big names, too, and who still can't play worth a damn" Denney

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:40 pm

Rick Denney wrote:Credential wars are pointless, because those DON'T represent ideas. Anger is even more pointless

... Because there IS no way to prove you aren't the proverbial 48 year-old fat guy posting in his underwear pretending to be a 15 year-old female virgin. Lighten up. The value of the 'net is in the exchange of ideas.

windshieldbug · Post by **windshieldbug** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:46 pm

Naw. If he was, I'd've seen him at the support group meetings...

Tubaguy56 · Post by **Tubaguy56** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 3:56 pm

First off, I apologize for my anger, but I felt like there was some
direct "attack" on myself.

Secondly....

So.... Let's just all go practice and let this boring post die an mercilious death.

Rick Denney · Post by **Rick Denney** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 4:28 pm

Tubaguy56 wrote:First off, I apologize for my anger, but I felt like there was some
direct "attack" on myself.

No, not on you, but on an idea that your words might have represented. The difference is critical in staying friends with those whom you debate.

Rick "a 48-year-old fat guy who could easily take Mike's '48-year-old fat guy' remark personally" Denney

Wyvern · Post by **Wyvern** » Wed Oct 04, 2006 7:18 pm

Rick Denney wrote:we can get depth and roundness to a greater extent than with smaller instruments.

I think this reason for playing a big tuba is too often not realized, particularly by those which have never played a BAT.

The main reason for playing a 6/4 tuba is quality of sound, rather than loudness. I have no trouble penetrating through the largest orchestra on my Eb's, but can just not get the depth and roundness of sound of my big Neptune.

In my experience, once you have played a BAT, your concept of THE tuba sound changes.