Tuba Exchange...

[pulseczar]

If we're still talking about asian imported horns, I can't wait until Gemstone musical comes out with their Tuba. Hopefully I can secure a ticket to the NAMM show and Gemstone/W. Nirschl debut their tuba there.

[Dan Schultz]

Dan, I do understand the facts of life and have, as you indicate, taken advantage of the situation and am not displeased with my Chinese horn(I really like the sound quality, even with me playing). I was just wondering when other 'classic' horns might start coming from there. Are the Kings and Conns even still made here? ....... I think it's more expensive to mfg. in Japan now than in the USA.

It should come as no surprise that many Yamaha parts and complete horns are manufactured in China. As an example, I know for a fact that the same factory that manufactures tubas for M & M also makes parts for Yamaha. There is still some domestic King and Conn production going on at Eastlake but my guess is that many of those parts being assembled there are produced in other parts of The World. NONE of this bothers me as long as the bulk of the dollars are made in the sales of musical instruments, and that we have a range of price/quality choices

The real fact-of-the-matter is.... YOU AND I will continue to determine the quality level of what we choose to buy. There will always be 'cheap' and 'expensive' alternatives.

I've said this before... Had it not been for foreign competition, we would still be driving the crap that GM tried to cram down our throats in the 70's!

[jacojdm]

I'm afraid that almost all beginner level Conn-Selmer(king,conn,artley,armstrong,vito,leblanc,etc) will very soon be made in China.But,it will not quite be like the instrument shaped objects of today.Conn-Selmer will build the factory,train the workers with folks who know what's going on,use the same designs,etc.,so,in theory,it might not be a disaster.

Conn-Selmer already makes a lot of its instruments in Taiwan. Or, rather, has instruments made in Taiwan. Any Bach or Selmer instrument with the notation "Aristocrat" or King horn with the word "Tempo" or Conn or Artley with the word "Director" on it is Taiwanese made. Conn Selmer does not own the factories, but rather it solicited bids from several factories that had to meet certain requirements to build its instruments, and found the best factory to make these horns. Vito clarinets are still made in Wisconsin, but if you happen to find a Vito sax or brass instrument, it's coming from Asia.

Selmer doesn't make ANY saxes in the US today (unless you special order an AS300 and wait a year for it). Bach and King still make student line brass in the Elkhart and Eastlake. The Bach 300 brass and King 600 brass are American made. The "background brass" (including King and Conn tubas and Sousaphone, despite the opinion of a well known brass repairman) are made in Eastlake.

[Dan Schultz]

.... The "background brass" (including King and Conn tubas and Sousaphone, despite the opinion of a well known brass repairman) are made in Eastlake.

It's true that the final assembly takes place at the Eastlake factory. But... do you know where all the parts are made? I'm not looking for an argument here. I'm only trying to make a point that it doesn't really matter where stuff originates as long as the quality (and price) is at a level acceptable to the end-user.

[eupher61]

Case in point:

that's not GM...

[Dan Schultz]

Case in point:

that's not GM...

Pinto.... Vega... what's the difference. They were both crap! How 'bout lthose Gremlins? Remember the GM V-8's that needed a new camshaft at 35K miles?

[windshieldbug]

OK...

<img src="http://h-body.org/library/hbodyscans/19 ... ega_01.jpg" width="700">

[eupher61]

that was the Nova===No Go.

[The Big Ben]

The Vega. What a missed opportunity...

1. The engine. GM had a perfectly good all-iron 4 cylinder engine that they had sold millions and millions of as a six and are still selling in a marine and industrial version. Put a fancy valve cover and an electronic ignition on it and call it good. They would have had a motor which had good horsepower and would last for 200K miles. With *no* development costs. What did they do? Go with an unproven, all-aluminum OHC 4 that was lucky to get 50K and had a ton of development costs. They eventually started putting the iron engine in Pontiac versions and called the "Iron Duke" but people were turned off on the car.

2. The body. They designed the production line in such a way that the rust proofing solutions did not get to all of the inside parts of the metal. Who ever heard of a car rusting out above the windshield on the driver's side? In production, an air bubble would form right there which kept the rust proofing from reaching the metal...

People wanted to buy (and did buy) this good looking, good fuel mileage (30+ MPG) American car. However, the execution was so poor that it would be very difficult to choose a Vega over the cars coming in from Asia.

The Chinese have the ability to make good tubas. Dalyans, by some estimations, are passable even good tubas. Bloke had nice things to say about that small CC he was selling. If they start doing some research and development instead of just copying an existing tuba, who knows what they might make? Pricewise, they might go up but, if it was possible to have a BBb or CC 4/4 tuba that was as predictable and reliable as a Miraphone 186 but for $4k, how many do you suppose they would sell?

Now, since this thread is about the Russians, I'm not sure if the Russians will ever produce something that is reliable and predictable. The cancer of the Soviet system went so deep that I'm not sure that they even know what 'reliable' means...

[Tubaguy56]

Well, sorry to go back to the original point of the thread. I bought my gronitz PCK from Tuba Exchange and I had great service. and they recommended the correct size case for me and then sold me it. oh, as for tubas, I'll buy them from 4 places, Japan, Germany, Switzerland, Japan, 'nuff said.

[runelk]

Tuba Exchange - Run away, run away now!!!

[WakinAZ]

Richard, now that everyone's had their fun, what kind of horn are you looking for and for what kind of playing?

Eric

[cjk]

Acept sell in spain or Mexico.

that was the Nova===No Go.

That's urban legend. It never happened.

http://spanish.about.com/cs/culture/a/chevy_nova.htm

[dmmorris]

Does anyone remember the Chevy MONZA

Ya mean this one from 1962? .......never made production!

My dad had one of the real production versions......... a white 1962 Corvair Monza 4-speed, convertible. A very cool car, that was amazingly quick. It was of course "unsafe at any speed", due to a swing axel suspension and "slim-to-not-existent" ballast in the trunk. Dad usually stored his full-cases of Ballantine Beer up there.....the trunk was huge and in the front of the car!


The '62 Mazda (Toyo Kogyo Co.) looked like this Mazda took over the Wankel rotary piston license from the Germans in 1961. I think this little beauty had a 4-stroke, 2-cylinder.

The '62 Corvair Monza looked like this This little beauty had a Air cooled, 6-cylinder.

[lgb&dtuba]

The Vega. What a missed opportunity...

It came with a shop manual, standard. Should have been a tip off. I wore it out. The car and the shop manual.

[Barney]

The Vega engine story is interesting.

Does anyone remember the Chevy MONZA (confusion with MAZDA completely intentional) in which they were planning on installing Wankel (rotary) engines - and bailed at the 11th hour in favor of their standard fare?

Chevy Monza ................. a REAL Mazda

bloke "a good decision for Chevy, actually. Until very recent years, rotary engines have leaked oil like sieves, and still to this day do not offer good gas mileage... ...and yep, my Mom had an ASTRA (Pontiac Vega) p.o.s. station wagon"

Yep, I remember the Monza well. My first car, in fact, was a Monza. Fold down the rear seats and plenty of room for tubas.

As for the engine, I don't know if this was common, but mine had a V-8 in it. Way too much engine for that sized car, but quite enjoyable for a high schooler with a lead foot.

Thanks for bringing back some nice memories.

[Richardrichard9]

Richard, now that everyone's had their fun, what kind of horn are you looking for and for what kind of playing?

Eric

um.. I am basically looking for a horn for home use/one that will get me through college.

[WakinAZ]

So you intend to play this through your college years or just up until you enter college and then you'll buy a different horn? You probably want a 4 or possibly a five valve horn if it will follow you to college.

Performance or Music Ed major or non-music major? Performance they will probably want you to play CC. For Ed or non-music major BBb is fine.

Still need more info on budget, your goals, etc.

Eric

[windshieldbug]

I wonder how one went about changing the sparkplugs on that V-8?

Growing up, I knew someone that had a 440 Dart
(and the answer was, you had to remove the engine mountings and raise it up, which kept you REAL careful from letting them get fouled up in traffic... )

[windshieldbug]

Yes, but does the lacquer have Chinese lead paint in it!?