tubashaman wrote:I think contrabass is more of a modern term designated by tubaists.
The earliest use of the term I have come across is in Wagner Ring, but in that case it may well be because the lower Wagner tuba is marked in the score as 'Basstuba' (to confuse) as discussed in another thread.
Mahler 2, 3 and 5 are marked 'Contrabasstuba', but I do not recall seeing the notation on music otherwise.
I think it is true that the specific tuba to use is largely at the discretion of the player.
Hindemith commonly bragged that he could play every note he ever composed, on each respective instrument. It's known he was competent on a wide variety of musical instruments. To think he was indifferent to the use of an instrument pitched a 5th lower doesn't really add up.
UncleBeer wrote:Hindemith commonly bragged that he could play every note he ever composed, on each respective instrument. It's known he was competent on a wide variety of musical instruments. To think he was indifferent to the use of an instrument pitched a 5th lower doesn't really add up.
By which you mean...
what? He wouldn't have minded the use of a contrabass? Or he WOULD have minded the use of a contrabass?
what? He wouldn't have minded the use of a contrabass? Or he WOULD have minded the use of a contrabass?
Hindemith was obviously acutely aware of the Germanic nomenclature "bastuba", and the difference in meaning from "contrabasstuba". The fact he swore he could play his own tuba sonata simply emphasizes his knowledge of the tuba and its variants.
Since he bothered to write "bastuba" on the sonata, it's safe to assume that's exactly what he meant.
TexTuba wrote:What I am saying is that we are never going to really know what kind of tuba they had in mind.
That is a valid point. Just because a certain key of tuba was used in that country at the time the work was composed does not mean that is the ideal sound for the music. It just means that is what the composer had to work with at the time.
All performances of classical music are modern interpretations to a greater, or lesser extent. Unlike paintings such as the Mona Lisa, music is a living art.
which explains the simple tuba part in his Sonata.
Relative to the piano part, yes. Though as was said before, it is one of the more musically challenging pieces in the solo rep.
Atleast 50 percent of the live performances I've heard of the third movement cadenza have been interpretively clueless. About another 25 percent not much better.
tubashaman wrote:me and my teacher researched this, he just had working knowledge of the instrument and was bedridden when he wrote the tuba sonata
Interesting nugget about him being bedridden...I can't find any reference to it in any of my research. He finished the sonata in January of 1955, in the middle of an active conducting schedule as far as what I have available says. Unfortunately, there aren't any published letters from around that time period in the collection by Geoffrey Skelton, and the Neumeyer text doesn't mention anything about Hindemith being sick around that time.
Get a copy of this book, "The Tuba Family" by Clifford Bevan. A MUST read for anyone who's thinking of getting an advanced degree in tuba or euphonium.
JCalkin wrote:I may or may not (wink wink) have a photocopy of Bruckner 7 in my office somewhere, and Bruckner has marked each of the four movements differently:
'Course I just play the whole thing on CC anyway...
tuben wrote:So says me from a few weeks back....
tuben wrote:
How's this for a theory.....
Wagner specified Kontra-bass tuba for the Ring cycle for one reason and one reason only... There were already two (2) Bass tuba parts in the score..... Only later were these instruments to become known as "Wagner" tubas.... The score simply calls for two (2) Tenor Tubas in Bb, two (2) Bass tubas in F and one (1) Kontra-Bass tuba....
RC
Same applies for Bruckner 7..... There are of course Wagner Tubas in movements 2 & 4....
Which is what I figured, but why mark "Baßtuba" at the tops of the pages for mvts 1&3? Why not just mark "Kontrabaßtuba" on the whole thing and leave it at that? Is it just a question of the movements having been composed independently of one another?
In the German orchestral tradition, does "Tuba" equal "Baßtuba" except in the presence of a "Baßtuba" (Wagner tuba) in which case "tuba"="Kontrabaßtuba"?
To use different names on the same part on the same piece of music seems to dictate a changing of instrument, but then to use "Baßtuba" on both the tuba and Wagner tuba parts seems like an odd thing to do...
Having not see the wagner tuba parts specifically, what is the nomenclature Bruckner uses for that instrument?
tubashaman wrote:me and my teacher researched this, he just had working knowledge of the instrument
It's been said that Hindemith wrote to his own technique on each instrument, which explains the simple tuba part in his Sonata.
That final lick at the end of the second movement is anything but easy.....
RC
I'll have to go with this opinion on the whole "The tuba part is easy/not easy" argument. That lick is nasty, (or, as I call it, "Holy hell, I give up" hard)
Aaron
"There are places in music that you can only go if you're an idiot."--Tom Waits
Back in the late romantic era, did tubists have a BBb, an F and a French C tuba?
Most of these parts could be played on any of the 3 instruments, could this be an added effect
Back in those days, the tuba used would very much depended on the country where it was being performed. F tuba in Britain, small C in France and BBb in Russia for EVERTHING.
My understanding is that the exception was Germany where both F and BBb were used, with even two separate players sometimes being employed.
I don't recall reading that CC was in common use in any country back in the 19th century, although manuafactured by Cerveny from c1845. The adoption of CC in symphony orchestras seems more modern, largely as a result of the success of the famous CSO Yorks.
Back in the late romantic era, did tubists have a BBb, an F and a French C tuba?
Most of these parts could be played on any of the 3 instruments, could this be an added effect
The tuba used largely depended on the country, F in Britain, small c in France, BBb in Russia for EVERYTHING.
Only in Germany did they seem to use both F and BBb in orchestras, even then.
That is why I think we can get too hung up about what tuba to use. No doubt back then Tchaikovsky was performed on small c in France and Berlioz on BBb in Russia
Did Hindemith specify bass tuba? My edition (Schott, 1957) simply reads "Sonate for Tuba and Piano." Likewise a 1982 article in the TUBA journal by Mark Nelson refers to the piece in the same way. And yet my 1996 edition of the Tuba Source Book does list the work as being for bass tuba. When was "bass tuba" added to the title?
This same article quotes a Dr. Giselher Schubert from the Hindemith Institute as saying the Sonate was writtten in a few days. It is also stated that this was not unusual for Hindemith as he always knew what he was going to write.
Concerning the Effie suite.I think it was written for Harvey Phillips who was known for doing everything on his smallish Conn CC.I also have heard that Effie refers to the range of the piece.From low f to high e.Wouldn't put any money on these facts though...
Pensacola Symphony
Troy University-adjunct tuba instructor
Yamaha yfb621 with 16’’ bell,with blokepiece symphony
Eastman 6/4 with blokepiece symphony/profundo
