Cimbasso prototype in action

Jay Bertolet · Post by **Jay Bertolet** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 7:55 pm

It's a good point Joe, perhaps I tend to see things through my own personal perspective as a professional orchestral player. Even the orchestra used to do at least one opera excerpts concert every year. Perhaps it's just my good fortune to not have run into any conductor that told me to leave the cimbasso at home. It's so much fun to play (hard work too) and so rewarding in the final product that I hope I never see such a conductor.

I'm not even going to speculate about the use of a cimbasso in a broadway show. Some notions are simply too horrible to contemplate.

scottmendoker · Post by **scottmendoker** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 10:23 pm

I've had the pleasure of working for the New York Grand Opera and Maestro Vincent La Selva for several years. I've played ALL of Verdi's operas during consecutive summers in Central Park under the project name: "Viva Verdi"
http://www.newyorkgrandopera.org/viva.htm
Except for Macbeth, Otello and Don Carlo, they could have easily been played on cimbasso. Actually, I did play some on cimbasso when I had the opportunity to borrow one from Meinl Weston (in F)
It's true - the cimbasso does and should sound like a bass trombone on steroids. I especially liked the reaction of my stringed (strung?) colleagues when I brought this thing in. I was VERY tempted to put cross-hairs on the bell but, alas, it was only a borrowed instrument.
Lots of fun to play, the trombone players loved it - I was one of THEM - and even the conductor didn't wince too often. Sam's cimbasso looks great and I applaud the effort/talent that went into creating it.

Scott Mendoker

Steve Marcus · Post by **Steve Marcus** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 11:27 pm

scottmendoker wrote:Except for Macbeth, Otello and Don Carlo, they could have easily been played on cimbasso.

So for those three Verdi operas, is F or CC tuba more appropriate than cimbasso?

scottmendoker · Post by **scottmendoker** » Mon Sep 13, 2004 6:02 am

Otello surprised me. First of all, we did these things on 3 rehearsals and couldn't get the music in advance. La Selva is VERY specific as to how he wants things played - the majority of the usual cuts in these operas were played, for example. Anyhow, Otello is, in my opinion, a CC tuba part - as is the Requiem. The others could and should be played on F.

Just as a footnote - tradition at the Met is that most of those Verdi operas are played on trombone - perhaps Chris Hall could chime in, here.

Scott Mendoker

Chuck Jackson · Post by **Chuck Jackson** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 9:47 am

Nice looking horn at a great price, but I can only imagine the mark-up.

Chuck

MaryAnn · Post by **MaryAnn** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 4:41 pm

Doc wrote: Check this out:

http://www.tubaexchange.com/Kalisonsale.htm

Doc

Well, if I win the lottery and can get Dillon's to sell me one....heh.

MA

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Wed Sep 22, 2004 10:18 am

So I'm currious now. I though a cimbasso was a tuba ranged baritone/ valve trombone.

So what would you call a Bb, cylindrical bore horn in the range of a tuba?
Wether it has an upright bell (ala baritone) or a forward bell(ala trombone).

You the bell arrngment make it a different horn then?

Either way, I want cylindrical bore horn, in the tuba range, I'd prefer a trombone style bell on it..

ThomasDodd · Post by **ThomasDodd** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 9:43 am

LV wrote: The front-facing-over-the-shoulder version is a recent development, but is essentially the same horn with a different wrap. Tuba range, very cylindrical bore, blends well with trombones.

Looks like what I want. Well, move the valves to the front first

Now to get the cash...

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:34 am

I've got one of these strange Italian basses (made by Orsi):

It's in Eb and has a tiny 0.495 bore and takes a tenor-shank trombone mouthpiece. For the bore size, it's surprisingly free-blowing, but takes some real technique getting a good sound down in the lower register.

I can't be sure even what the "authentic" idea of a cimbasso is (maybe a six-valve bimbonifono is also a cimbasso?), but the examples I've seen all have fairly small bores.

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 11:42 am

The Verdi BBb upright appears to be a "dual bore" instrument with a larger bore of cylindrical tubing after the valve section and before the final flare. That's what I intend to do with subsequent cimbassi that I build.
After taking stock of what it will take in parts and labor I think that I can build 4-valve cimbassi for $2850 and the 5-valves for $3450.
I'm not convinced that the 5th valve on a cimbasso is at all necessary. It seems from the opera parts that I've encountered that the 4 valve horns are quite adequate. Range on a couple of them seems to indicate that Verdi was writing with a 3-valve Bb (not BBb) instrument in mind. Others seem to be for a 3-valve F. There certainly would have been no benefit from having a 5th valve on my Eb for what I had to play last week on it.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 12:19 pm

Chuck(G) wrote:I've got one of these strange Italian basses (made by Orsi):

It's in Eb and has a tiny 0.495 bore and takes a tenor-shank trombone mouthpiece. For the bore size, it's surprisingly free-blowing, but takes some real technique getting a good sound down in the lower register.

I can't be sure even what the "authentic" idea of a cimbasso is (maybe a six-valve bimbonifono is also a cimbasso?), but the examples I've seen all have fairly small bores.

And this one has the amazing ability to suspend itself from a (rug covered) ceiling.

Jay Bertolet · Post by **Jay Bertolet** » Thu Sep 23, 2004 10:27 pm

On an Eb cimbasso, just having the 5th valve to play the Ab below the staff is worth it for me. Plenty of those in the repertoire. Besides, I find it pretty interesting to monkey around with the cimbasso on stuff that it wasn't intended for like solos and the like. Makes for pretty interesting sight reading.

UDELBR · Post by **UDELBR** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:44 am

I've got one of them home-built jobbies, too. It's in Eb, and I cobbled the bell together from a french horn bell and sheet brass. This thing works great!

Sam Gnagey · Post by **Sam Gnagey** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:18 am

Jay has a valid point about the usefullness of the 5th valve for the Ab if you don't have a first slide to pull. My horn has a long enough 1st slide that is accessable to pull to bring the Ab in tune. Even the low F is workable that way. It does not have a low E-natural. I'd be interested in knowing more about your horn, Jay. Any chance for you to post a picture and details for us?

Jay Bertolet · Post by **Jay Bertolet** » Fri Sep 24, 2004 4:30 pm

I'd be happy to post photos and information regarding my cimbasso. However, I don't have webhosting space set up for the photos. Perhaps someone would agree to post them for me if I emailed them?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Wed Oct 20, 2004 12:45 am

bloke wrote:Here's a nice F cimbasso for someone...

...only need a "little bit" of work, and on eBay right now!

Looks almost like a bimbonifono! Wonder if it is.