German Kaiser arrived, HORNPORN !!!!!

[oedipoes]

dorn has to be documented visually, so where are the pics?

K

well, I could make some new pictures, but it looks exactly the same now as on my first post. Only now the tubes move freely and the valves run smoothly. The 'ring' in the sound has gone away.
I tried it in our band last night and it worked ok. The rotary valves take some time for getting used to, but I like the sound.
However, I think with that narrow bell, a larger orchestra would not work.

wim

[Wyvern]

well, I could make some new pictures, but it looks exactly the same now as on my first post. Only now the tubes move freely and the valves run smoothly. The 'ring' in the sound has gone away.
I tried it in our band last night and it worked ok. The rotary valves take some time for getting used to, but I like the sound.
However, I think with that narrow bell, a larger orchestra would not work.

Have you not had that big dent in the bottom bow by main tuning slide taken out? Could be done at least partially quite inexpensively with magnets I would have thought?

Why do you not think it would work with larger orchestra Wim? Not big enough sound?

[oedipoes]

well, I could make some new pictures, but it looks exactly the same now as on my first post. Only now the tubes move freely and the valves run smoothly. The 'ring' in the sound has gone away.
I tried it in our band last night and it worked ok. The rotary valves take some time for getting used to, but I like the sound.
However, I think with that narrow bell, a larger orchestra would not work.

Have you not had that big dent in the bottom bow by main tuning slide taken out? Could be done at least partially quite inexpensively with magnets I would have thought?

Why do you not think it would work with larger orchestra Wim? Not big enough sound?

I had that particular dent removed actually, together with some wrinkles on the bell.
The wrinkles under the silver bell garland are still there, for economic reasons .
ok ok, I'll put up some more photographs, you tuba-addicts.

About the orchestra thing, well, it's a first impression. The sound is quite different from the yamaha I'm used to, and the sound reaches my brains from the other side now. (for the first time in 27 years) I had the impression that the sound is quite focussed, but I'm not sure. The band master said it sounded pretty much in tune, and that's about the best you can reach in his scale of in-tuneness !
I think a larger bell would make the sound more fundamental, more support under the band. But it can sound so much different to an audience than to yourself.
But I will firstly have to get used to the larger bore and different airflow.

Wim

[Wyvern]

But it can sound so much different to an audience than to yourself.
But I will firstly have to get used to the larger bore and different airflow.

Yes, it can sound quite different out front. When I first heard recording of my Cerveny Kaiser I was pleasantly surprised at how it projects. My perception was that the tone is so broad it would get covered, but not so at all.

For the blowing and air flow, you have got to get used to sitting back and let the tuba do the work. Kaisers do not need 'pushing' like one is used to with a smaller tubas.

Enjoy its no doubt great sound!

[oedipoes]

dorn has to be documented visually, so where are the pics?

K

[oedipoes]

more pics

[oedipoes]

I'm still learning how to blow it. The Yamaha is just like a very big euphonium with less sound. The Kaiser however, that's a real 5/4 (6/4?) BBb tuba.

I try to play the Kaiser each time after my +/-1 hour euphonium practice.
It relaxes the lips (that's very much necessary when studying the Philip Sparke euphonium concerto) and it also trains my breathing quite a bit.

I hope to have this instrument restored completely, some time...


Wim

[Wyvern]

Thanks Wim - Enjoy!

How are you finding the rotary valves after its overhaul?

[oedipoes]

Thanks Wim - Enjoy!

How are you finding the rotary valves after its overhaul?

smoooooothly
really nice, never expected the result would be that good

[imperialbari]

Fun to see that YBB-321 dwarfed, and it like the Besson has a big frame for a piston BBb.

Klaus

[The Big Ben]

Fun to see that YBB-321 dwarfed, and it like the Besson has a big frame for a piston BBb.

Klaus

Wim:

What do you think of the big keel on the Kaiser compared to the smooth bow of the Yamaha?

My 'new' 186 has a keel like that and I haven't gotten used to it yet. Kinda sharp into the thighs.

[imperialbari]

Not being Wim I still have such keel on my Jos. Martin of Würzburg CC (Alex 163 sized, not a Kaiser). From a structural point of view such keel is very strong compared to the mass of material. It also has a wider protection areawise than the British ball busters.

I like none of them interfering with the vessels of my thighs, so as with all of my basses I play them supported by a stand.

Klaus

[Wyvern]

so as with all of my basses I play them supported by a stand.

Definitely the best solution! And as has been said previously, the tuba reverberated better on a stand and therefore sounds better too (even if the difference is small).

[oedipoes]

Fun to see that YBB-321 dwarfed, and it like the Besson has a big frame for a piston BBb.

Klaus

Wim:

What do you think of the big keel on the Kaiser compared to the smooth bow of the Yamaha?

My 'new' 186 has a keel like that and I haven't gotten used to it yet. Kinda sharp into the thighs.

Well, since the distance between the 'keel' and the mouthpipe is rather large, I let the tuba rest on the chair while playing, so it does not bother me.
The problem with some stands is, that they can not be adjusted below chair-level, which it should in my case. So for the moment I do not use a stand.

I have some trouble putting the horn away during rehearsals, because it will not stand on its bell. So I'm on the lookout for a floor-stand, like Jonathan's former tuba - picture showed (pic of three horns in a row remember?)

Finding a case that suits this kaiser will also be a problem, because the height is 1140mm and bell 380mm. This size is not common any more. Maybe a case for a B&S BBb Walter Hilgers model will suit??
Any ideas?


Wim

[oedipoes]

Fun to see that YBB-321 dwarfed, and it like the Besson has a big frame for a piston BBb.

Klaus

It actually had a Yamaha for breakfast this morning... .

Wim

[Wyvern]

Well, since the distance between the 'keel' and the mouthpipe is rather large, I let the tuba rest on the chair while playing, so it does not bother me.
The problem with some stands is, that they can not be adjusted below chair-level, which it should in my case. So for the moment I do not use a stand.

I have some trouble putting the horn away during rehearsals, because it will not stand on its bell. So I'm on the lookout for a floor-stand, like Jonathan's former tuba - picture showed (pic of three horns in a row remember?)

Finding a case that suits this kaiser will also be a problem, because the height is 1140mm and bell 380mm. This size is not common any more. Maybe a case for a B&S BBb Walter Hilgers model will suit??
Any ideas?

Wim, This is the sort of K & M stand you want for your Kaiser

see http://www.hornboerse.de/lshop,showdeta ... 945,,,.htm" target="_blank

Make sure you get the 'Kaiser' stand. The standard ones are not big enough.


For a playing stand, the Tubassist ( http://www.tubassist.com" target="_blank ) drops well below chair height and works fine for my Cerveny.

As for case, or gig bag - drop my good friend Mark Carter at Mr.Tuba ( mark@mrtuba.com" target="_blank ) an email. I am sure he will be able to advise and order if you wish. One for a Hilgers sounds like a good bet, but the cases and bags are made to order, so no reason why you should not be able to get one to fit.

[oedipoes]

I discussed the sound of the kaiser with the conductor last night after the rehearsal.
We agreed the sound is 'symphonic'.
Meaning: broad, round, warm, ...
We played some big band arrangements , and there was too little 'bite' in the sound.
I can not get the kaiser to sound more aggressive. We have no bass trombonist in the band, so the tuba's must fullfill the 'blast'-role in bigband playing. And the kaiser just sounds too nice for that. It is just not quite the right tool for the job.
So next rehearsal will be back to the Yama-thing.

Maybe I'll buy a new horn once, and that one should be able to do everything. (maybe the willson 3100FA-5, except for Oberbayern playing, the kaiser is really made for that!!).

[oedipoes]

Have you tried a shallower mouthpiece? Every bigger rotary Bb (not a whole lot, but some- Fafner, 191, 187) I've played has been able to crank it without too much effort. It might be a bass trombone substitute, but I'd'a thought you would be able to gather unpleasant looks rather easily. Maybe you can keep it and get a small, cheaper F for that purpose. The F's I played a while back at tubadome and WWBW were able to get LETHAL. That way you'll have 2 cool horns!


How's the low range on it?

Good hint, I'll try some mouthpieces when I get the chance. I'm using a denis wick 2L now.
Too big? (answer me, kaiser fellows) I might try the PT and JK ranges. Suggestions here for BBb kaiser playing ?

The low range is like the rest: Easily played, and in tune with little effort.
But oh so round and nice. (so no bite) I can get to pedal Bb (played open, that's C in my transposed reading), which I can not on the yamaha. That note is just not in there.

About the F, nah, I never learned to play it. (didn't learn to play the BBb tuba neither, but that comes naturally if you play the euphonium already) Maybe once.

Like I said, I hope to buy the BBb (no CC, if BBb's good enough for walter hilgers, it's good enough for me) of my dreams once, and that one must be able to play everything I want.

wim

[imperialbari]

I'm using a denis wick 2L now.

Rather too deep than too wide.

A wide and shallowish German mouthpiece might be the jazz solution for you. But never expect a tuba to replace a bass trombone soundwise. The attempts rather will go ugly than trombonish.

K

[Wyvern]

Too big? (answer me, kaiser fellows) I might try the PT and JK ranges. Suggestions here for BBb kaiser playing ?

Try a PT-65. Will give you a more focused sound with less harmonics