Which F tuba is best to buy?

[Biggs]

Band directors really don't need an f tuba. They need a good BBb tuba, trombone, trumpet, horn, clarinet, flute, and saxophone.

An f tuba for a music educator is overkill.

You do realize that the band directors go home at night, yes? Contrary to what you may have thought, they don't live in the band room but occasionally venture outside to do things that aren't teaching 8th-grade sectionals, arranging stand tunes for the football games, or organizing chair auditions. And what they do on their own time hardly seems like anyone's business beyond their own. But if they spent their own time advancing their own playing and performing their instrument in situations that aren't demonstrations of proper articulation for sophomore trumpeters, I wouldn't be shocked.

He's not asking if he needs an F tuba. He wants advice on F tuba models, not a lecture on how you, a non-band-directing doofus, think band directors should spend their time.

He should learn the other instruments in school so he can teach them in school, you big doofus.

And how, exactly, would owning an F tuba prevent him from doing this?

[Michael Bush]

How about if we just answer the kid's question to whatever degree it has an answer (which IMHO would not lead to a thread of more than one page) and let him have the life and the tuba he wants?

[Biggs]

With the name of Biggs he can't be a small fellow.

Instead of playing challenging F tuba solo repertoire, it might do the young man good to spend all this extra time to study a secondary instrument, like clarinet. Call me a doofus, but when 2 people are applying for the non-existent jobs in music, one can play 2 tubas well, and the other can play one tuba and clarinet well, who is more likely to be hired, especially if they have a brass person already at the school?

Again, I fail to see why owning an F tuba would prevent him from taking methods classes, or even full-on private lessons on any other instrument(s) he wishes.

Hell, even a doofus like me accomplished this: I've played every key of tuba for money, and I still learned how to get around pretty well on marimba, trap set, timpani, and the rest of the battery. And I sure didn't have the kind of tuba-wherewithal that this young man has at age 18.


I would also postulate that "playing the tuba well" in the employment context that you mentioned means being able to play any and all keys of tuba, much as a saxophonist would be able to play any and all saxophones, an oboist could handle a cor anglais, or a percussionist would need to be ready to jump onto anything a composer demands.

[Biggs]

F tuba will require practice outside his main horn, correct.

We agree.

Using F tuba when he teaches, I highly doubt it.

We disagree.

Instead, he should invest his money in owning some of the common band instruments, in my opinion, so he can have them at easy access when having to teach the specific instrument.

We agree, although for different reasons.

He has no interests in performing professionally like you Biggs, so I even question his need for a CC tuba.

We agree. But we're talking about a tuba he wants. Not a tuba he needs.

I am willing to bet there are a few band directors on this forum who are successful educators and band directors who only played BBb (or CC) tubas while in school.

We agree.

If he is being pressured to own an F tuba to be a music educator, he should either use the school horn or transfer schools.

We disagree.

I might be the minority, but I do not think you need an F tuba or even a CC tuba to be a good educator.

We agree.

When you are playing along with the valved brass in your 6th grade band, playing a CC tuba will confuse the daylights out of them.

We disagree.

[ppalan]

With the name of Biggs he can't be a small fellow.

Meet Mr. Biggs of the duo Biggs and Barr
(and I sincerely apologize to the REAL "Biggs")

Missouri, your reasoning and logic are beyond astounding.

[Biggs]

Why would he use an F tuba while teaching, especially to younger students who need to hear what a contrabass tubas sounds like?

Anecdote: My band director (grades 7-12) didn't play the tuba. But he didn't have to. If he didn't like something that I was playing, he would pick up his saxophone, say "play it more like this..." and then play it, adding the articulation, dynamics, breaths, style, or whatever he found me to be lacking.

He, like all (surely all, yes?) music education majors, had taken methods classes on all the instruments so he was familiar with concepts like 2nd valves lowering pitch by a semitone, buzzing on the mouthpiece, lip slurs, etc.

Obviously, different band directors and school systems have different methods for so-called beginning band. My beginning band director (a trumpeter) could operate all the instruments as well as the 4th-6th graders needed him to. 4th-grade band consisted of like-instrument classes whereas he would point to a Bb, say "This is a Bb. This is how you play a Bb," and then toot a Bb out while demonstrating the fingering to us. Lather, rinse, and repeat for each note we needed to play that semester. With regard to the OP, he'll be taking methods classes for all the instruments. He'll learn how to finger a Bb on the clarinet and how to play a Bb better than someone who has never touched a clarinet before. IF he becomes a beginning band teacher and IF he is fortunate enough to have tubas in his beginning band, I'm sure his sound on any kind of tuba will be better than his students' sound on BBb or otherwise.

If he is in school, he should ask his professor about these horns instead of 2000 people who have never heard him play and have no clue what horn would benefit him based on his size, lung capacity, and other stuff. He is paying a teacher to teach him this stuff, so he should use him.

Yes, this is extremely true. But I see no harm in the TNFJ sharing their experience with whatever particular model of F tuba they play on.

[TubaZac2012]

This post is making me lose brain cells. Let the dude decide on his own. All he wanted to do is know what F tubas were good and not worth picking up. If he wants to blow tons of money on an F tuba, let him make that decision for himself, but just because he wants to be a band director, doesn't mean he can't have one.

Missouri, you make some decent points, but so does Biggs. In the end, you're getting off the entire topic of the original post. I think we know what you think, but it's obvious that he is going to do what he wants to do. Let him decide for himself, he knows what you think, because you've made that clear, from the beginning.

Matt, if you want an F, get one, but I'm here to tell you, just because you have an F, doesn't automatically make it easier, I know you wanna play the John Williams and the Szpentpali, but those aren't solos you just automatically start whenever you pick up an F tuba, it's a learning process. Those concertos are ones that high caliber players deal with, usually Junior or Senior level of college, or graduate school players.

My point in all of this is that even if you do get an F, doesn't mean you'll be able to play those pieces, because I know how you play, and frankly, you just aren't ready. You're a good player, but not anywhere near ready enough to play that caliber of literature. In the end, if you get an F, great, if not, great. It doesn't matter, because at UNA, you won't be using any of it for anything but tuba and euphonium ensemble and quartet. You know what F tubas are good, because I've already told you face-to-face, but in the end, don't rush into anything, and good luck, I'll see you in a couple weeks, and we'll see each other every day this Fall.

[Biggs]

If he wants to blow tons of money on an F tuba, let him make that decision for himself...

Let him decide for himself....

Ah.

You know what F tubas are good, because I've already told you face-to-face...

Oh.

[TubaZac2012]

Biggs, whenever I say I told him, is that I told him from my personal experiences what works, and what doesn't, because he's asked. Some F tubas aren't worth picking up, and I've played on some of those, not owned, but played. I was just letting him know.

[eupher61]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_eZmEiyTo0

I hereby nominate Missouri to play the part of Vizzini; the rest of us The Dread Pirate Roberts.

truly dizzying.

[k001k47]

PM me if you have one

[Biggs]

Biggs, whenever I say I told him, is that I told him from my personal experiences what works, and what doesn't, because he's asked. Some F tubas aren't worth picking up, and I've played on some of those, not owned, but played. I was just letting him know.

How is this different from every other knucklehead on here saying "I play the Make-Model F tuba and I like it because..."



You chide us for not letting him decide for himself (though his decision, judging from his initial call for advice, involves at least hearing the rants and raves of the TNFJ), and then, in the same breath, go on to tell him precisely how you think he should decide, right down to the specifics of which models you recommend.

Physician, heal thyself.

[Tom.Idzinsk]

I would never want to play the Szentpali concerto or the John Williams on CC even though it is possible. If you plan on doing these you should use an F tuba. The Yamaha's are good for starting out on F and they are reasonably priced.

[Tom.Idzinsk]

My point in all of this is that even if you do get an F, doesn't mean you'll be able to play those pieces, because I know how you play, and frankly, you just aren't ready. You're a good player, but not anywhere near ready enough to play that caliber of literature. In the end, if you get an F, great, if not, great. It doesn't matter, because at UNA, you won't be using any of it for anything but tuba and euphonium ensemble and quartet. You know what F tubas are good, because I've already told you face-to-face, but in the end, don't rush into anything, and good luck, I'll see you in a couple weeks, and we'll see each other every day this Fall.

I will emphasize this point, this kid goes to the same school you are going to be attending. Your friend, who is studying under your professor and knows your playing, thinks you are not ready to play these pieces, and that you are not ready for an F tuba and to wait. You won't be using the horn at UNA as I mentioned earlier.

Biscuits, something you need to know. I learned more about music (though I was only a minor) from my fellow musicians than I did the actual professors I had. Even in science labs, we would meet and discuss things we found in our experiments and what older students realized as well. Your friend knows the program, the requirements, the demands. Trust his advice on this. Play the horn you have, and let your professor tell you when it is time to purchase an F tuba.

Bryan

Never limit yourself at any age. If you want to play them play them

[Bob Kolada]

I play a Miraphone 1281 and like it a lot, but I still really like the Cerveny 653- great sound, very open, great low range, and I think they're still around $3500 for a new 5 valve. Or if you just want something for very high/delicate stuff you could just get a decent euphonium. That might be more useful for a high school or college player.

[Michael Bush]

Surprisingly, it is possible to become a better tuba player using a tuba in F (or whatever) that comes in for a good bit of derision on TubeNet. You could pay $800 or $900 for a tuba that is beneath contempt to some and get to be a better player by working on making the most musical sound you can with it. Not likely that it's going to be a lifetime instrument for you, or one with which you will win an orchestral job, but it's possible that such an instrument could allow you to take the next step.

[jasoncatchpowle]

Meinl Weston 2250

[Agelaus]

I play on a Kanstul F, and love the thing. Its a small 3/4 horn, but projects extremely well. I use it for solos as well as band and orchestra. Only down fall i have had is the tuning is a little weird on it, and the placement of the valves is a little awkward for the hand. A cheap mod from my local tech fixed the positioning though.

[Rick Denney]

For Americans, an F tuba is a specialty instrument.

But those who say it's not any easier to play high on an F tuba, sorry, but that's just nonsense. I find it far easier to play higher material, with a better sound, better phrasing, and better accuracy, using an F tuba. Do we tell cellists to learn their literature on a bass, because if they can't play it well on bass, they have no chance on 'cello?

Sure, playing an F tuba will not cover up faults. But everyone has faults. If I'd waited to address all my faults before buying an F, I'd still be waiting, instead of being able to look back on 24 years of enjoyment of playing an F tuba.

If a high-school kid came here and said, "I NEED an F tuba!", then all the comments refuting that would be right on the mark. But he WANTS an F tuba. So did I when I bought my first one.

So, Biscuit, your next step is: Decide why you want an F tuba, beyond playing two or three works in the literature that you will possibly never have a chance to play outside a college recital. There are several possibilties. One is that you want to play the classic F-tuba orchestral literature, even if in an amateur orchestra. Some of that does not need a big instrument, but most of it needs a big sound. That's what orchestral F tubas were made to do, and the B&S Symphonie that Bloke describes was one of the first really good ones. There are bigger ones now, and some of them are nice, but that B&S still has a singing quality that is apparent even for people of less-than-high-end abilities.

Another reason is for playing in a small ensemble, like a tuba quartet. In this situation, a small F with a distinctive F sound works really well--even moreso than with solo literature. I played a Yamaha 621F in the TubaMeisters and it worked perfectly. And my quintet includes amateurs--a big contrabass tuba would bury them. I can make nearly any size F tuba work in that quintet.

Then there's the solo literature, where size is less important than sound and playability (including intonation).

F tubas need lots of valves because music for them covers a wide range. In quintet, the music frequently takes me down into several ledger lines below the bass clef, and often enough above the staff. Where others are absolutely right is that the most difficult register for an F tuba is below the bass clef. Lots of valves provide the tools, but making a good sound and doing so in tune is the challenge. Whatever F tuba you play will likely require a different blowing technique than your C, and blowing it like a contrabass tuba is likely to sound rather porcine.

The F that I use most often (for quintet, and occasionally for playing band music that needs a bass tuba voice to go with the ensemble), is a B&S of the Symphonie type, but a later model not commonly seen, especially in the U.S. (I think it's a PT-9, officially, though it doesn't say so.) I agree with Bloke that the sound isn't quite as sweet as the Symphonie I used to have, but the instrument is easier for me to steer (especially down low) and has a sixth valve. The difference in sound is a slight subtlety, but my playing isn't quite up to where such subtleties are relevant.

I also own a Yamaha 621F, and it's just sheer fun every time I put it to my lips. But for people of modest capabilities, it's difficult to balance a band with that instrument.

The F market is particularly active right now, with more good ones available than was the case even five years ago. Schedule a trip to a conference where you can try them out.

Rick "Yes, you'll have to have good basic skills on all band instruments to get a music education degree, but, no, you don't have to actually own them" Denney