Why the bias AGAINST CC tubas on TubeNet?

[windshieldbug]

You don't see them much anymore, I wonder why....

The only way to make the floor shake was when you spiked one...

[Worth]

I'm sure there are others out there like me who years ago started on Trumpet and then went on to Euphonium and Tuba. The progression from Trumpet to T.C. Euphonium to C Tuba is a natural one, especially for someone who reads both bass and treble clefs comfortably.

[jsmn4vu]

Aside from reading note names on a staff, the valve combinations and sound are completely different for a baritone t.c. than a cc tuba. Yes you are playing a written c, but sounding a Bb not to mention you would be reading different notes/valve combinations in bass clef unless you transposed c tuba parts to treble clef.

I see little natural progression.

But it's very real. With a C tuba, if you have grown up on TC baritone (or trumpet) AND read bass clef (e.g., piano), then it's trivial to identify a bass clef note, and play it with the same fingering you'd use for TC.

Learning to read and play a Bb instrument in bass clef is a bit of a chore, in comparison.

How do I know this? I've lived it.

[jsmn4vu]

So your high school had a cc tuba which allowed you to seamlessly transition?

Heh ... in the '50s, when I was in high school, we were lucky to have Bb tubas.

Usually bass clef is completely new to the majority of trumpet/batitone students.

It's when it's not that the magic works.

[Three Valves]

Why shouldn't I be anti-CC??

What has one ever done for me??

[Billy M.]

BUY MY CC TUBA, and PROVE that *you* are unbiased !!!

Which one, Bloke? The Rudy, the Thor, or your much coveted Buescher helicon?

[sloan]

Anytime a youngster comes here and asks about CC tubas, the TNFJ jumps on them. They are shouted down as being extravagant, wasteful, etc., etc.

I would submit that the bias is not against C tubas per se, but against kids who think they MUST have one, for reasons that are at best half-baked.

+1

[TUbajohn20J]

I was a Texas 5A all stater in hs and learned and always had played on BBb and went on to major in tuba performance in college. The band director there was really pushing me to get a CC tuba. Just because "that's what professionals play on." So when I was ready to buy a tuba of my own I tested out all the professional tubas at TMEA convention that year. I really found that my favorite was the Willson. I played hard on the Willson CC , and every other CC just because that's what "I was supposed to buy". I really liked the Willson though. And then I played on the Willson 3100 BBb and compared it side by side to the CC version.. I immediately fell in love and knew that was the horn I was getting. Simply because it to me it felt " easier" to play than the CC version and I could tell the intonation was better. Just something about it was magical to me, must have been that awesome low register. I don't really know! But that's the tuba I bought. My teacher was there with me and he thought the same thing ..that it just "sounded better" than the CC. He then told me what i wish somebody would have told me long long ago before people started pushing the CC mentality on me, that it doesn't matter what key the tuba is in as long as you can play anything on it and sound good doing it! He then told me about all the old pros that use BBb horns. Anyway I'm happy with my decision. I played that horn all through my college career in countless ensembles and am still in love with it to this day. It has never held me back in any way including the orchestral works where people think you "need" a CC. The best part of all was that I didn't have to learn all new fingerings.

[bttmbow]

Don Butterfield has been quoted as saying (paraphrased):

"Why do all these guys play CC tubas? The trombones are all in BBb."

A good horn is a good horn. Play one that helps you sound the way you want to sound.

[southtubist]

I owned a CC and an F tuba before I even got to college. Why? Well, I was playing on a level that justified it. I played quintet/solo literature that was highly impractical on CC tuba. I actually use my F tuba for everything except large ensemble stuff. I actually prefer to play fundamentals on my F tuba.

I've never really cared about what society thinks about my equipment. The only people that notice anything are other tuba players, and they usually aren't conductors. It matters even less now that music is no longer my intended career. Had I stuck with music, I'd have bought a 6/4 BBb (piston vs. rotors don't matter, whatever was cheap and had a manageable low range) to play specific works on. I'm thinking select Bruckner symphonies, select Mahler excerpts and some Wagner. My Alex can play big enough to handle virtually everything out there. My F tuba can play in wind ensemble sections, lessons, quintet, solo, medium orchestral works, etc. Heck, my Alex has a good enough high range for Bydlo if necessary. One of my buddies used the Alex to record Bydlo in an audition tape and he got the gig. I'm an advocate for getting the best equipment you can afford.

Why sell yourself short even if you're playing for fun?

[lowpitchmoravian]

Who cares ------to each his own-----All pitch Tubas sound good with correct person on North end of the mouthpiece.

[GC]

When I first came to the old TubeNet, there was a definite bias against Bb tubas for serious players. Eb tubas were spoken of as a dying breed, almost an anachronism. CC and F received the vast majority of praise a superior instruments. Frankly, the discourse now is much more balanced. Eb has made a considerable comeback. BBb instruments of considerable quality are common. The fact that any instrument, not matter what the key, can be considered worthy in its own right is a much better situation.

I've seen little prejudice against CC instruments here on ToobNet lately. It's not prejudice to tell folks that they shouldn't rush into switching to CC from whatever key for shallow or spurious reasons; it's reasonable caution, especially before forking over a huge chunk of change. If you have an honest need to switch, then switch. If you've thought it through and still have a lot of qualms, then keep thinking. Just don't get caught up in the idea that a CC or F is a true "professional" instrument more than any other. Players are professionals. Instruments are tools. (And so are some players.)

[GC]

Criticism accepted.

Rephrased: Instruments are tools. (And so are some players. )

[k001k47]

[LCTuba89]

I'm no pro, but I played C tuba for quite awhile. Much like Bloke said, most older C tubas were just "cut-down" versions of BBb tubas. I played that Melton 2155R for 6 years and it was quite a learning experience, even more so than when I was playing a King 2341 in HS. It taught me that not all horns are in tune with themselves and the players have to make them sound good. It also got me out of the annoying habit of ignoring the use of the 4th valve. After 6 years of playing it, I decided to switch back to a BBb tuba. I got a BAT and used what I learned from playing the 2155R to play BAT more effectively. As far as "response" is concerned, I never felt a difference between C and BBb. In fact the only thing I like about C tuba is that it weighs less than a BBb tuba. You don't need a C tuba to be a professional, if that were true then I think the whole world would be using C tubas. Play what feels and sounds best to you.

P.S.: For the record, I'm never switching back to C tuba. I feel that BBb tuba more than enough serves my needs.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm just curious why so many people cut down York BBb tubas to CC. I would think a purpose built C would be better, and that cutting down could get rid of some of the conical nature of the tuba. Just seems to be a bit of a waste to do such a major modification of a tuba just to suit the current trend in the US with regards to tuba pitch.

And that is probably part of the "CC backlash". That became the "standard" somehow. Maybe it's also because most student and intermediate tubas are BBb, so the idea becomes that if it's a BBb tuba, it's not a "real" tuba. Who knows.

[barry grrr-ero]

It's simple: most CC tubas blow out of tune, and the five valve system is a pain in the rear when one has to play a lot of fast stuff down low. In spite of all that, I still play CC because they speak quicker - pretty much immediately - and generally sound much cleaner, with little or no 'tubby-nes'. They're also a tad easier in sharp keys. One has to pick their poison, I suppose. Also, many CC tubas are very bright sounding, which is why I like playing a large 5/4 CC (Neptune) with a titanium mouthpiece (G&W), or the stainless steel Blokepiece. I can get a big dynamic range on the Neptune, which is helpful in concert bands that don't have big tuba sections. But tuning and fingerings can sometimes be a pain. Pros and cons.

Barry Guerrero
-----------------------
rotary Neptune; larger lead-pipe; several mouthpieces; valve oil; grease; roll top backpack to fit tuba stand into; LED stand light; KIA Soul to fit everything; Chiropractor in Marin County; professional tax accountant in S.F., which helps me very little . . .

. . . wouldn't change it for the world.

[tbonesullivan]

Tuba player that plays in my quintet uses a CC, a B&S something. 5 valves. the valve tuning slides all have rubber O rings so he doesn't make noise with the constant adjustments he's making. I keep telling him if he wants to use slides he should take up trombone.

[southtubist]

I personally believe the CC tuba is better, and I happen to play a "factory cut" horn. The fingerings make much more sense to me, also I've never played a BBb tuba that responded well- and I've played some nice ones. I would only play a BBb if it was gigantic and I was looking for the biggest possible tuba for maximum firepower.

Really though, a small F tuba is more realistic for 99% of the stuff I've played, including "big" ensembles. I'm considering selling my Alex because I no longer have a use for such a large horn, and in a year or so I'll be moving to the middle of nowhere for work. No community band, professional symphony orchestras, or even church chamber groups. . .

[southtubist]

Actually, this is the best argument for anything I've ever seen on this forum. Either this, or "it depends".