Spilt topic from wessex 'Grand'

[Wyvern]

The protype Wessex "Grand" is basically a reincarnation of the Holton 345 which so many of Tubeneters have drooled over in the past and wished for from Santa. The judgement will come from how the horn actually plays.

Let me correct a misconception. The Wessex Grand is based on a 6/4 York bugle and not Holton. I don't know how much they vary in dimensions, but Chuck Nichols who designed the Grand thought the York the better, the Holton having more intonation quirks.

[Donn]

In my book, a BAT has more to do with the size of the bell and bottom bow and attending branches. A nominally .750 bore (at the valves) has been pretty much been standard. Take into account that an American BAT has nominally a 14/15 inch lead pipe which puts the valve section pretty early in the taper. Granted larger .800 bores work well on smaller horns like the St. Pete, (with a much longer leadpipe) but then it is a balance between the overall taper and volume of the "entire" instrument. There is really no one "formula" for a BAT or 6/4. Also take into account the various european 6/4s that work on a somewhat different principle of taper. Funny, in europe these are referred to as Kaiser tubas, but in the USA, we "affectionately call them BATs. They are not the same animal as there are so many variables in the equation.

"American BAT" is redundant - Big American Tuba. Indeed they are not the same animal, but some differences are less important than they might appear. Difference between typical BAT and Kaiser designs includes piston vs rotary, which determines what valve bore sizes are possible, and thus where the valves may be located on the bore. If you move an valve bore a foot or two down the line, the same tuba could go from .687 to .800, changing only the valve tubing.

[bort]

"American BAT" is redundant - Big American Tuba.

The "A" doesn't stand for "American".

[Three Valves]

"American BAT" is redundant - Big American Tuba.

The "A" doesn't stand for "American".

Wouldn't a German BAT be a GAT??

(Grosse Arsch Tuba)

[bort]

"American BAT" is redundant - Big American Tuba.

The "A" doesn't stand for "American".

Wouldn't a German BAT be a GAT??

(Grosse Arsch Tuba)

Probably... but it'd all be one word: großarschtuba

[bisontuba]

Now if I had a 400 lb horn, would it be a BAT or just be 'bigly?'

[MrMitch]

The best I could find was this tuba with a stand:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -tuba.html" target="_blank

It looks like the stand is likely cheaper than that umbrella stand, but it's a bit less ornate as well.

[Three Valves]

Now if I had a 400 lb horn, would it be a BAT or just be 'bigly?'

BFnT

[Donn]

The "A" doesn't stand for "American".

Sure it does. I mean, of course, there are any number of examples of popular phrases that use nonsensical coarse language for emphasis, but like this one they're unimaginatively repurposed from some phrase that makes sense. Ship-load, truck-load for example. Substitute a term that makes no sense but has the same vowel sound, and you have "noise that guys make." The real terms with meanings that make sense are ship load, truck load ... Big American Tuba.

[Michael Bush]

Pretty sure when Tony Clements coined the term, he was providing prose descriptions of the fractional sizes of European rotary valve tubas. "6/4=That's a big *** tuba". It was very close to that in the little chart he made.

The whole short lead pipe, pancake bell thing came along later as a further evolution in the way people used the term.

[Donn]

Pretty sure when Tony Clements coined the term, he was providing prose descriptions of the fractional sizes of European rotary valve tubas. "6/4=That's a big *** tuba". It was very close to that in the little chart he made.

The whole short lead pipe, pancake bell thing came along later as a further evolution in the way people used the term.

Can you dig up that Tony Clemens citation, have you ever seen it? As it has been used all along since the term appears in online discussion, BAT has meant American style.

[bort]

The "A" doesn't stand for "American".

Sure it does. I mean, of course, there are any number of examples of popular phrases that use nonsensical coarse language for emphasis, but like this one they're unimaginatively repurposed from some phrase that makes sense. Ship-load, truck-load for example. Substitute a term that makes no sense but has the same vowel sound, and you have "noise that guys make." The real terms with meanings that make sense are ship load, truck load ... Big American Tuba.

I have never once heard the phrase "Big American Tuba" before reading your posts today.

To be quite honest, I think it sounds kind of stupid, and I wouldn't use the terminology "BAT" if I thought it actually meant that.

[bort]

As it has been used all along since the term appears in online discussion, BAT has meant American style.

Maybe it's just me, but I've never known it to mean anything other than Big Asss Tuba.

[Michael Bush]

[
Can you dig up that Tony Clemens citation, have you ever seen it?

Yes, I have seen it. And I am pretty confident I saved it. Tony himself asked me to see if I could find it a couple of years ago, though, and I didn't turn it up at the time. He remembers it too, though. Maybe he'll pipe up here. (He just posted this morning in another thread, so maybe he'll see this.)

It was more or less like this, though the exact text may be off somewhat:
3/4 - Is that a tuba?
4/4 - That's a tuba.
Etc.

I would like to say I would dig through old backup drives soon and find it. I would really like to see it again. Life is going to have to settle down a bit before I could promise to do that, though.

[bort]

This is not the origin of it, but it goes back to 1999:

http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/dec1999 ... 20113.html" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

All of the old "Tony said..." threads I have seen only mention the term "BAT", and not what the letters stand for. This one goes back to 2004:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=99#p725" target="_blank" target="_blank" target="_blank

Correction -- it goes back to the TubaEuph email list? Hrmph, I know I was on there, but no clue what email address I used for it, and if the archives still exist.

[Michael Bush]

Correction -- it goes back to the TubaEuph email list?

Yes.

[Three Valves]

Donn really gets to you guys, doesn't he??

[Michael Bush]

Donn really gets to you guys, doesn't he??

I think we're all just throwing whatever we've got into the pot.

[Three Valves]

Ah, who can stand furthest from the pot and still fill it with piss!!

[Three Valves]

No matter how one slices it, describing anything as less than a whole tuba, based only upon size, is hurtful.