Accord Flight Case

[joh_tuba]

First, we'd like to address the idea of a case that would be under the 62 linear inches size requirement for checking a bag. Such a thing is not possible with a 6/4 tuba, even if the bell were converted to a screw top. Without a bell, the body of the MW 6450 6/4 CC tuba measures 30 x 22 x 14, for a total of 66 linear inches. Add a minimum of 1 inch of padding on each side and the total becomes 72 linear inches. The body of a 6/4 Nirschl is similar, though a bit slimmer around the waste at 30 x 19 x 14. In fact, a case under 62 linear inches would not be possible for a MW 2250 F tuba with the bell removed: 32 x 18 x 10 = 60 linear inches, add an inch of padding on each side = 66 linear inches.

In a previous post I suggested that the solution is to remove the bell *at* the bottom bow. IF you do that(along with the leadpipe), I am reasonably confident that even a PT6 would fit in a large Samsonite suitcase. Worst case scenario it might rest at an angle in the suitcase rather than flat.

Ironically, tall bell tubas are the ones most likely to benefit from this idea. Something like the Thor might never be small enough. You are also correct that many 6/4 tubas might never be made small enough.

I *LOVE* the idea of an accord. However, once the bell is made removable your only cost would be the actual suitcase. Long and short term I think my suggestion is more affordable and you'll be guaranteed to never deal with overweight OR oversize fees again.

[Aubrey Foard]

In a previous post I suggested that the solution is to remove the bell *at* the bottom bow. IF you do that(along with the leadpipe), I am reasonably confident that even a PT6 would fit in a large Samsonite suitcase. Worst case scenario it might rest at an angle in the suitcase rather than flat.

Ironically, tall bell tubas are the ones most likely to benefit from this idea. Something like the Thor might never be small enough. You are also correct that many 6/4 tubas might never be made small enough.

I *LOVE* the idea of an accord. However, once the bell is made removable your only cost would be the actual suitcase. Long and short term I think my suggestion is more affordable and you'll be guaranteed to never deal with overweight OR oversize fees again.

Your idea, in theory, sounds excellent. Unfortunately, it would not work given several limitations.

First, the largest hard shell suitcase Samsonite currently has in production measures 31.5 x 22 x 12. This may indeed be wide and long enough to accommodate a 5/4 CC tuba, though virtually any tuba with piston valves would not be able to fit - with sufficient padding - inside the 12 inch height.

Second, Samsonite has discontinued its Kevlar products; the strongest material they produce to protect your assets is a polypropylene plastic material. This may indeed be quite strong, but it does not measure up to the protection granted by Kevlar.

Third, assuming a suitcase could be outfitted with the proper padding to hold a bell-less tuba, what would you do with the bell? A PT-6 has a 19" bell diameter, meaning it would not fit in a narrowbody (737, 757, Airbus 32x, MD 80, etc) aircraft's overhead bin. It could fit in a widebody (767, 777, 747, A330, A380) aircraft's window bin, but, with extremely few exceptions, those aircraft are used exclusively for international travel. Furthermore, a 19" bell would not fit under the seat in front of you. It might be possible to check the bell, but you would then have a technically oversize case: the bell of a MW 2250 F tuba is 17.3 inches and the bell down to the bottom bow is 25 inches. Add an inch of padding on all sides and your final dimensions are 19.3 x 19.3 x 27, or 65.6 linear inches. In order to check it, I'm assuming you'd need to custom design the bell case and you'd probably want to use Kevlar or a comparable material in order to guarantee the bell's protection.

The bottom line is that the Accord Case is simply the best option: it is designed specifically for the tuba, uses the strongest material currently available, and is the lightest and smallest tuba flight case on the market.

Please see my previous posts upthread for more information. For instructions on ordering an Accord Case, please see this post.

[Aaron Tindall]

I agree with everything that Aubrey has mentioned above. We have spent the time to measure all of the different type of flight case scenarios out, and go through each and every airlines "restrictions" for outer dimensions. Even before I gained elite flier status, whenever I traveled with one or two tubas in an Accord case I was never charged for oversize or overweight fees.

This is a GREAT investment for those of you who fly with 5/4 and 6/4 tubas.

[tubajoe]

Hi folks... sorry took me a little while to get this here...!

I’m glad that this is happening… it’s taken some time, but I’m glad we’ve all been able to prove that there is demand for these cases! Thanks to Aaron and Aubrey and everyone else…

A bit of back story… back in 2011, I decided to upgrade my case… I spoke to many case companies, did quite a bit of research — ended up deciding that *no* tuba case manufacturers had the right professional solution. I ended up moving on to hi-end manufacturers of cases for string instruments which seemed to be generations ahead technologically, and I stumbled across Accord. They actually listed a tuba case in their catalog, but a bit later realized that at the time they had only made a few of these and the concept was still in development.

My needs are a bit more extensive than many, my case gets dragged around constantly in a zillion different contexts. It’s beyond just flying... It's a matter of going from planes to trains to cabs to vans, even to boats…. I need something that fits in normal vehicles, is carryable on my back, is under weight regulations for the airport (as my tuba only weighs 18 pounds without a case). Every USA-made/designed case seemed to be military grade… with a “hum-vee” type of approach. This was unacceptable for my needs.

I live in NYC and play the tuba full-time, so I need a hard case which is also a daily gigbag replacement. My tuba is constantly dealing with subway turnstiles, taxicab trunks, sound guys at clubs, swimming through drunk crowds etc etc…on a daily basis.

So, a gigbag replacement... which would also work as a flight case. Too much to ask? Cello players were able to have this... so that's the direction I went.

Fortunately, Accord was interested in developing this further, so we worked together and went through two generations of the case through a fair amount of trial. They were fantastic to deal with.

The first case I got from Accord was an absolute godsend. It was the answer to these exact problems. But… it still had some construction issues. The case was built using their standard stock parts from their world-famous cello cases, which weren't quite strong enough yet for an instrument that was several times the weight of a cello.

The company responded to my requests fantastically… and we worked several times to improve the design. On subsequent trips to Europe I would meet them and they upgraded my first case with better hinges and handles right away.

With some regularity I play/stay in Venice, which is not too far from Pula, Croatia where the cases are made (it is a relatively small family business). After about a year of use, I went to the factory and they closely surveyed the wear on my first case, and made a second case for me with many improvements I suggested — stronger handles, hinges, metal wheel housings, and most importantly a thicker and more rigid lid, sides and stronger lip bead too. We also redesigned and strenghtened some of the inner padding.

I’ve been using this second case for about 2.5 years… and it’s fantastic. I use it every day — I no longer use a gig bag. This is my everyday tuba case. And it gets taken everywhere.

In photos you’ll notice that I have the edges covered in gaffers tape. This is not to repair damage, this is simply a protective thing as the bell flair is where the case gets banged around the most. I simply keep gaffers tape on the parts of the case which come in contact the most. I also remove the backpack apparatus when I fly and I tape down every D-ring etc…

Now, regarding 6/4 BAT cases etc… In my talks with Accord and when I went to the factory — when they were interested in developing this program, I told them that the a key to American players were BAT cases. They had, at the time, started to look into making a 6/4 case, and at one point were making one for a European player… and said it was totally possible.

In 2013, the person who seemed to be spearheading the tuba project retired from the company, and it seemed that it may have been shelved for a while… but now it seems with our eventual community interest (pooled by Aaron and Aubrey!) that the project is continuing.

I’m thrilled that this is happening and that this case can come into the world. Professionally owning this case an incredible help. Incredible. I can't emphasize it enough.

Here are few answers to common questions:

My horn is newer ‘old’ Miraphone 186 4U CC (late 1970’s/very early 1980's). It weighs about 18lbs out of the case and about 40 in the case. (version one was 38lbs, it went up to 40 for version two which is a bit thicker) It’s far under the usual weight limit of 50lbs. I usually don’t get hassled about linear inches.

It fits into the trunk of a standard US taxicab (Crown Vic or Town Car) but does not aways fit into the trunk of a small Honda hybrid cab, when then it sits in the back seat on my lap. In the back of minivans it can even fit standing upright. Many European cabs are often BMWs or Mercedes which usually have no problem (German engineering fitting a tuba, go figure!). On trains it usually fits into the luggage racks. Conductors rarely hassle me.

A general note while flying: SCHEDULE LONGER LAYOVERS. On layovers less than, say, 90 minutes, the tuba will get left for a later flight (especially in England) As a rule for me, I insist on layovers of 2-3 hours to ensure good tuba transfer. I also leave detailed instructions and a photo inside the case to insure proper handling.

Some photos for your case-perusing enjoyment:

case-carnegie.jpg

case-walking.jpg

case-sanmarco.jpg

[imperialbari]

As I am not flying anymore, I haven’t followed this thread in debt. Yet enough to get a favorable impression of the Accord tuba case. So I was not surprised when a European tubist, well known as orchestral player, soloist, and clinician, presented his new Accord case on his Facebook wall.

The surprise came, when another European tubist, even better known as soloist, recitalist, and clinician, condoled his college on his acquisition. There was a specified list of complaints plus an almost shocking photo of his badly cracked Accord case. The worst complaint apparently being that the carbon fibre of the Accord case doesn’t flex when roughly handled like being dropped on tarmac or on concrete. It cracks.

The experiences are not mine. I have no financial interests in the case market whatsoever. I am not telling the names of the said tubists. The purpose of this post is bringing forth another view on this apparently costly case.

Klaus

[circusboy]

These new rules go into effect in March of 2015.

FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012
SEC. 403. MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS.
Sec. 41724. Musical instruments. In general …

1. SMALL INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE — An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a violin, guitar, or other musical instrument in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to any standard fee that carrier may require for comparable carry-on baggage, if …

(A) the instrument can be stowed safely in a suitable baggage compartment in the aircraft cabin or under a passenger seat, in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the administrator; and

(B) there is space for such stowage at the time the passenger boards the aircraft.

2. LARGER INSTRUMENTS AS CARRY-ON BAGGAGE — An air carrier providing air transportation shall permit a passenger to carry a musical instrument that is too large to meet the requirements of paragraph (1) in the aircraft cabin, without charging the passenger a fee in addition to the cost of the additional ticket described in subparagraph (E), if …

(A) the instrument is contained in a case or covered so as to avoid injury to other passengers;

(B) the weight of the instrument, including the case or covering, does not exceed 165 pounds or the applicable weight restrictions for the aircraft;

(C) the instrument can be stowed in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the administrator;

(D) neither the instrument nor the case contains any object not otherwise permitted to be carried in an aircraft cabin because of a law or regulation of the United States; and

(E) the passenger wishing to carry the instrument in the aircraft cabin has purchased an additional seat to accommodate the instrument.

3. LARGE INSTRUMENTS AS CHECKED BAGGAGE — An air carrier shall transport as baggage a musical instrument that is the property of a passenger traveling in air transportation that may not be carried in the aircraft cabin if …

(A) the sum of the length, width, and height measured in inches of the outside linear dimensions of the instrument (including the case) does not exceed 150 inches or the applicable size restrictions for the aircraft;

(B) the weight of the instrument does not exceed 165 pounds or the applicable weight restrictions for the aircraft; and

(C) the instrument can be stowed in accordance with the requirements for carriage of carry-on baggage or cargo established by the Administrator.

[bisontuba]

So-bottom line--are these new upcoming rules favorable for an Accord 6/4 case or not?
Mark

[Aubrey Foard]

I've been following (and commenting on) this Facebook post as well. It seems that the tubist in question had decided to fill the case with hot, dense foam that would mold perfectly to the tuba. In theory, this seems like a good idea. In practice, the foam pressed up tightly against both the case and the tuba, resulting in case, foam, and tuba being unable to absorb the shock of any impact. The result is that the case cracked and the tuba's valve section got wrecked. I think it's important to point out that, in spite of being the lightest and strongest case on the market, the Accord Case is not invincible. As I said upthread, the Accord Tuba Flight Case is designed to be dropped from a three story building and not crack. A five (or ten or twenty) story building? No guarantees. In this case, the tubist said that the foam was too rigid to absorb the impact. This is important because, no matter how strong the case, there needs to be the ability to absorb impact at some point. That is why Accord gives you soft, modular foam padding when you receive your case: you can fit it exactly to the tuba inside, but it will be flexible enough to absorb any strong impact.

(And, N.B., in spite of the rigidity of the padding and the extreme impact, the Accord Case still managed to protect almost all of the horn: according to this tubist, the outer bends of the tuba, including the bell, were fine. Now, imagine if the tuba sustained that impact in a less strong case!)

To summarize: it takes an extremely strong impact to crack an Accord Case. In this instance, the circumstance of there being no place to absorb impact inside the case caused the case to become compromised.

Please see my previous posts upthread for more information. For instructions on ordering an Accord Case, please see this post.

[imperialbari]

Glad you expanded the story with this aspect of modification to the Accord case. I hadn't understood this from the recent FB thread.

Klaus

[Aubrey Foard]

Glad you expanded the story with this aspect of modification to the Accord case. I hadn't understood this from the recent FB thread.

Klaus

No worries and happy to help! This aspect wasn't added until after your original post. Cheers.

[bud]

Request: Could accord make note of measurements that fit really well for tuba models that they're getting repeat purchases for? I feel like if someone already successfully got their Baer snuggled up right, than I would rather go with those measurements than my own. Thanks!

[DanJPeck]

Hey Aubrey and Aaron,
Thanks for doing the legwork on this, really a huge help!

I'm about to add to the pile and order one myself, although I was curious to check in first with Aubrey, Aaron, or anyone who has successfully ordered and used an accord case for a PISTON horn. Obviously in the measurement form, it's a rotor tuba; pistons seem to "stick out" slightly more than a rotor horn, so I didn't know if this would have any effect on the case design/mold.

Related to that, I didn't notice any measurement for depth on the form (going THROUGH the horn, from top of pistons to the body)…perhaps this is not needed because of the case design?

And finally, it seems like F and I, and G and J are virtually the same measurements on the form, so one or the other are redundant.

FYI, I'll be ordering a case for a PT-6P horn. Any help would be much appreciated!

Dan

[imperialbari]

The player that had his Accord case crack offered to give the Accord company some design input. They never came back to him.

The player who opened the said FB thread also had problems communicating with Accord. He simply drove down to them in Croatia and fetched his case.

Klaus

[John Banther]

Hi everyone,

I said I would give an update after using the case for a while.

First, the not so good!

Accord as a company, is a giant mess. Communication is a giant mess. My case arrived, and looked gorgeous. But, it was missing some majorly important things. It is missing a bumper, that exposes one of the hinges to major wear and tear, and also the case itself where it receives the most use. It was also missing the movable padding on the inside. The padding that came with the case, is barely enough to even call it a "gig bag."

For 3+ months I had to make my own (bad) padding with materials from a craft store. After 3 months, and some strongly worded emails, Accord sent the correct padding. Accord is also going to send the missing bumper, and a replacement hinge.

The major communication issues seem to be with the distributor for the USA. It seems to be the main issue with everyone in the US and Accord. Emailing Accord directly resulted in a better and faster resolution.

This all sounds bad, but here is the good!

The case itself is wonderful and a work of art, I love it! It looks fantastic, and is incredibly strong and light. It has been on now 8 different planes, and is of course pretty scuffed up, but is doing it's job. Being able to go from plane to a small rental car without a giant flight case, or having to buy extra seats is an amazing feeling! I have not had to pay any weight/size fees yet on Delta/United, and it is technically oversize on Delta. It is thin except the bell section, and weighs 38 pounds, nobody has given it a second look.

I have the back pack apparatus installed, which I recommend 100%. The backpack padding is put on with snaps, which broke off after the first flight. Not a concern for me as I found that thing to be very uncomfortable and didn't use it. The backpack straps themselves are very comfortable and feel safe!

People who keep saying the wheels are going to break off, probably haven't seen it in person. The wheels are incredibly strong! I have no fear of them breaking. Plus, if they even did break, it is a very simple system, I feel like it would be an easy fix.

If you travel, this case is a must, and is worth every hassle to get! Actually, even if you don't travel, paying a little over $2k to really protect a $15k horn is probably a good idea.

[Aaron Tindall]

Sorry for the wait everyone, but we have received word that the 6/4 case will finally be in production soon. There were just a few details that needed to be taken care of.

If you are interested in more information, please contact Aubrey or myself.

[Kenneth Amis]

A lot of aspects of the Accord Case prevent bell damage:
1.) When the case is closed, the kevlar and carbon fiber composite makes it incredibly strong. You would literally have to drop it from the roof of a three story building to damage it.

A Styrofoam cup can survive a 4-story drop if it's empty. Assuming this test was actually done (noting the use of the word "literally"), was the drop test done with an empty, 13lb case? The product of the equation will be quite different once a 25lb tuba--almost twice the weight of the case--is added to the mass of the falling case.
In other words, is the case rated to survive a 4-story drop ("roof of a three story building") with 25lbs added to its mass? Such a differential will would reduce the height from which the case could reliably withstand failure.
I'm not asking to be a nuisance. I've just seen the baggage handlers drive the conveyor ramps around in the inclined position while luggage is on the inclined belt! Plus, the cargo area of most mid-sized aircraft is over 10ft above the tarmac.

Does Accord offer any type of written warranty for their product?

[Rick Denney]

Thanks for posting the images. The fact that the leadpipe is on the hinge-side of the case is a new one on me. I've always thought the horn was oriented with the leadpipe toward the handle so it's not apt to be exposed if the case is set down hard on the bottom.

EDIT: (Okay, this is a necro-thread. So sue me.)

Ray Grim used to own a wood case for his 186-5U C Miraphone that was oriented that way. The case had formed-plywood sides and was truly compact compared to the usual wood cases of the day, and even compared to the usual ABS cases of today, while providing what I considered to be better protection. (Alas, that case eventually gave up its life for that cause, as seems to happen with all wood cases used by guys who actually do use them and play every day.) The leadpipe does not project out from the line between the bell edge and the bottom bow, so if something gets to it, you'll have other problems, too.

FURTHER EDIT: For Blokes who want to support the bell using the hoop strength of the throat, the old trick of inflating a soccer ball (or other suitably sized ball) in the bell to carry a large share of the load on the bell end should solve any perceived issue with overloading the bell rim.

Rick "who has considered trying to design something similar, but who already has a job" Denney

[Rick Denney]

Kariso tuba cases have this orientation.

http://www.hornboerse.de/en/Kariso+-+Case+for+Tuba.htm

Yes, that's the case that Ray used for many years.

Rick "who always admired the shape and orientation of that case" Denney

[akniffen]

So now it's September, 2015 - has anyone flown with a 6/4 case yet? I'm ready to order, just curious.
Tony

[Kenneth Amis]

So now it's September, 2015 - has anyone flown with a 6/4 case yet? I'm ready to order, just curious.
Tony

Those cases have still not gone into production. You should call their US distributor (Quality Strings, I think) and tell them you're interested so that they have more incentive to put time toward this.