Why did the ophicleide go out of fashion?

[musicalcunnings]

imperialbari,

Though I am new to this board, I am no where new from tuba. I know Gene Pokorny said that quote, and I have never read it anywhere else, so I accredited Pokorny with saying the quote, since I did hear him saying this. This does not diminish the other great tubists who might have said it before. The "radio" broadcast is readily available online to listen to if you wanted to hear it, and my point was the ophicleide did not support this role.

Ben

[BVD Press]

If you have time, I have uploaded a 9 minute Ophicleide Duet:

http://download.yousendit.com/Q01IS3hRNDRGOFJFQlE9PQ

Although played fairly well, you can hear why we moved forward with the tuba and dropped the ophicleide. It was performed by the Yankee Brass Band in 2005. All players are performing on authentic instruments from the Civil War time period. If you have not tried it, it is not all that easy to do!

[imperialbari]

If you have time, I have uploaded a 9 minute Ophicleide Duet:

http://download.yousendit.com/Q01IS3hRNDRGOFJFQlE9PQ

Although played fairly well, you can hear why we moved forward with the tuba and dropped the ophicleide. It was performed by the Yankee Brass Band in 2005. All players are performing on authentic instruments from the Civil War time period. If you have not tried it, it is not all that easy to do!

Honestly I have heard amateur euphonium players perform less convincingly and still achive much acclaim. Still this music was an interesting listening because it much of the way shared tonal concept with the Italian national hymn. That tune is a stroke of genius insofar that it catches my attention every time at a very low root level of my musical consciousness. The same goes with the whole Italian population, but then my sub-Alpine genes are a whole lot of generations back.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

imperialbari,

Though I am new to this board, I am no where new from tuba. I know Gene Pokorny said that quote, and I have never read it anywhere else, so I accredited Pokorny with saying the quote, since I did hear him saying this. This does not diminish the other great tubists who might have said it before. The "radio" broadcast is readily available online to listen to if you wanted to hear it, and my point was the ophicleide did not support this role.

Ben

I wasn’t out to offend no tubists nor any posters. This whole concept as worded by Mr. Pokorny and Mr. Fletcher also is found in many other tuba contexts.

Not by accident was the tuba chosen as the bass in almost all ensemble recordings in early grammophone history. Even in the 1930-ies The Chief sat in anonymously on NYPO recordings to make the string bass line come down in the grooves.

Our very own elephant didn’t use the same words, but the thinking was/is the same, when he tells about why he uses his BAT and his near-BAT in his orchestral work.

Klaus

[tubatom91]

I can't even imagine the look on my directors face if I busted out an old ophicleide! I know that these instruments are not really practical in the time we live in, but you can't ignore the "cool" factor that these bring. Very unique instruments I'd like to see a modern repro of some kind.

[SplatterTone]

It's mildly admirable that the link to the picture is still there after four+ years.
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=639

[David Richoux]

I can't even imagine the look on my directors face if I busted out an old ophicleide! I know that these instruments are not really practical in the time we live in, but you can't ignore the "cool" factor that these bring. Very unique instruments I'd like to see a modern repro of some kind.

I get that every once in a while when I play in the LSJUMB - "It would be so cool to have a Helicon in the line" - when the younger players find out I have one (but I never wanted to bring out my rather fragile ophicleide to the field...)

Maybe a Euphonium mouthpiece in a Bari Sax would replicate the experience?

[J.c. Sherman]

The ophicleide's sound actually (to me) resembles more of a euphonium, and the job of the foundation was not accomplished. Many composers, such as Berlioz (a master of orchestration) and Wagner changed the ophicleide parts to tuba, because this was the preferred sound. I know Mendehlsohn in A Mid-Summer's Night.... left the part as ophicleide, probably because of the tone and such.

Couple corrections here...

The Ophicleide part from the Mendelssohn AMSND was originally a serpent part (more correctly, a bass horn part) and was changed by him later to ophicleide. The tuba was only 12 years old when he died.

Berlioz never changed ophicleide parts to tuba; he did allow the use of the tuba in certain situations to replace one ophicleide, and did score some tuba parts, but never without an ophicleide as well. He did rescore the serpent in Symphonie fantastique for a second ophicleide.

Wagner did change his tastes however, but he used the ophicleide differently than Berlioz, and fairly quickly. However, he didn't always replace the keyed brass - Rienzi never lost the serpent part.

The ophicleide’s sound is a bit more akin to the Euphonium or French Tuba. But the ophicleide did well for what it did. It was not abandoned for playability. That's like saying we no longer use heckelphone since the string bass has a much better low register. They're different instruments. Tastes for what to put on the bass of the brass did change, until we reached the American BAT sound and couldn't really get bigger. But some composers, again, were not a fan of the tuba. They got an adequate support for the orchestra from the basses, and wanted a blending instrument for the section. Remember, not every work with trombones has tuba either; its use is by no means required, and a bass trombone works just fine.

Epelsheim made the modern ophicleide in the youtube trio.

They are great players, but for none of them is the ophicleide their principle instrument. That said, every one of them has used the instrument in a modern top-notch orchestra, a claim few of us can make. I played Ophicleide for Verdi's Requiem last year with Robert Page. I assure you, it works fabulously!

J.c.S.