TubeNet Commissioning Project?

[Tubadork]

Woo Hoo!
Go Rick, Go Rick!
sorry, but if the performance of Gene Pokorny's playing is the one from last years DC tuba convention that he referrs to as one of his great musical moments I'll have to second that. I sat and listened to Gene play simple tunes in his masterclass and I just loved it. In fact i ran back to the practice room thinking "Golly, I wanna do that! And better yet, sound like that."
hmmm..... maybe that's why I am THE TUBADORK!
and to back up Doc $20 would be an amazing start considering how many people read this board.
And to be honest if this piece isn't playable by us mere tuba mortals, it will be by the next generation and I do not think that there is anything better that we can do as players, teachers and educators than to promote the future welfare of those who will tread the same road that we did, but will have less brush to clear.
Bill Pritchard

[Philip Jensen]

I think that exposure is the key, and having a well known composer's name at the top would definitely make a difference. However, let's not leave out the all important premier!

If we could also line up one of the top (10) orchestral players and their respective orchestra to do the premier that certainly would raise a few eyebrows.

This might also help entice a composer, knowing that the work is going to be performed by a premier group. That's got to be more exciting, as the others have said, than writing something that is going to be premiered at a tuba conference and then hopefully picked up later by more eminent groups to play. A composer who's truely excited about the project will more likely produce the desired results.

This may be more difficult, but what is being proposed is something hopefully revolutionary for the tuba's reputation.

Heck with $20, I'd contribute $100. With 100 donors, that'd be 10G!

[Matt G]

Rick "for whom the most sublime music he has heard in the last year was Gene Pokorny playing a simple hymn tune in the pedal register" Denney

Either that was insanely good, or you're insane. I would bank on the 'you', and so would most people who aren't tubaists. People laugh at us when we play quickly or lowly, and aren't really open to a sublime experience. The answer to this (in my opinion) is exposure. I remember the first time when I saw a violinist in my youth orchestra playing something very quick (when I didn't know anything) and I laughed. It was funny. Now I'm used to it. Start playing and stop whining.

You, Mandrake, are wrong. My wife, a very amateur musician and clarinet player, heard that performance live as did I. It was the only that she was totally engrossed in anything that went on that weekend. I don't blame her either. We heard a lot of good "tuba" music, but Gene was playing music. Not meant to be a slight to anyone else, but Gene was on a totally different level. Chalk it up to age experience, exposure, three stooges, whatever, but he was fantastic. And that simple hymn tune from "Gettysburg" was breathtaking. I think it may still be archived on the Army website.

Now, for the composition, I would also agree that it needs to carry a name that guarantees two things: quality and recognition. The composer must be able to transcend academia and into the professional music world. I would argue that a good composer would have the chops to write good music that doesn't require a blur of 16th notes every other line. However, it is gonna take a lot of money, a whole lot of money, to get a piece by a pre-eminent composer.

There have been good lists so far. Now it needs to be whittled down. I would propose that a quasi-committee be formed to select or recommend a composer to Sean after the composers were fully researched and all costs, amount of time needed, and interest were determined. At that point we could chip in and establish a fund to pay for the work.

[Normal]

As I read the previous posts, I am torn between the purpose of a commissioned piece being a premier tuba piece (in the classical vein) or a more popular piece that would catch the ears of a larger audience (more a Pops type of piece).

As a tuba novice, I would like to have a great showcase piece for the instrument. Something that would elevate the tuba's esteem within the classical world (wishful thinking?). The question though about the value of Tuba Christmas brings another element into my mind. I know many people that first came to Tuba Christmas because of the novelty of seeing a bunch of oom pah players playing Christmas music. These same people have come away astounded that that much brass can actually play good sounding music. In this case the novelty brings them in, the musicality brings them back. I'm thinking that a more popular piece would get people listening. It is also possible that a very good composer could be inspired by the popularity and write something great for tuba. Great music has to be composed by an inspired composer as well as a talented music writer.

I just had the opportunity to play de Meij's Wind in the Willows. It was fun after the performance to hear someone "whistling" one of the tuba riffs. I have also had fun recently playing some of Randy Newman's popular stuff on tuba. Maybe one of these two should be considered.

Time to stop with the random thoughts.

[Chuck(G)]

Sigh. I just don't know.

There are lots of sonatas and such for double bass by some really top-notch composers. And bass is much more of a mainline instrument than is the tuba (it regularly gets used in everything from symphony to bluegrass and jazz).

How many CDs of Bottesini or Dragonetti or Koussevitsky works for bass do you own? I've got several (more than I have solo tuba recordings), but only because I own and play bass. If I didn't, I couldn't say that I'd own any.

Would I think of the bass as a serious instrument if I didn't play one? Of course--it's easy enough to see with my own eyes and hear with my own ears the function it serves. Would a solo work make me think that it was if I didn't already think so? I doubt it.

So what is this commission by a "serious and important" composer for the tuba supposed to do?

[Normal]

How about another thought that would promote the tuba as a musical instrument, but maybe not a solo piece? The world could use a tuba ensemble playing patriotic type music. I was thinking maybe a sextet with music being written/arranged by the likes of Peter Schickele. This would mix the musical traits of the tuba with some fun. I would think it would be written at the grade 5 level so it could be played in other venues. The first arrangement could be written for Pops Orchestra accompaniment so it could be debuted by the Boston Pops during the 4th of July. It could also be arranged with wind ensemble and brass band accompaniment for others of us.

[TonyZ]

Get:
John Corigliano
Christopher Rouse
Michael Torke
Michael Colgrass
John Adams
John Luther Adams
Alex Shapiro
These are the cats that are the "Beethovens" of the day!

All of your criteria will be met. Expensive, yes. Worth it: DEFINITELY yes.

[NeilMacQuarrie]

How about a composer who plays tuba?

David Gillingham......

http://www.gillinghammusic.com/

• Used to play the euph, as far as I've heard
  "Young" american composer.
  Lots of imagination.
  Wrote a great basstbn sonata among other things including a trio for tuba, euph and piano.
  Some of you likely know this fellow from the world of wind band.

that's it for me,

happy holidays.

N.

[Art Hovey]

I am ready to chip in my $20.
It seems to me that a lot of fine composers have been suggested, but possibly none of them will win unanimous approval from this group. There's hurdle number one.
Challenge number two is achieving recognition as serious music without being so difficult to play (and to listen to) that it only gets played once. My vote would be for something that would be played by every town band and amateur orchestra in the world because it sounds great and plays itself. Accomplishing that without being trite calls for real genius. Recognizing such genius in advance seems to be even more challenging.

[Art Hovey]

Seems to me that the most important thing is to choose someone who can create unforgettable melodic material. Bobo picked Roger Kellaway, and the results were marvelous.
Where were we when Duke Ellington was in his prime? Who can fill those shoes today?

[Rick Denney]

I am ready to chip in my $20.
It seems to me that a lot of fine composers have been suggested, but possibly none of them will win unanimous approval from this group. There's hurdle number one.

Not for me, it isn't. If the decision is to go with one of the usual tuba composers, I'll still contribute. The repertoire needs more good music at all levels, and in the absence of great I will still feel good about good. And I'll help persuade others to participate, as I did with the James Grant commission. But I'll still feel a pang of disappointment at an opportunity missed.

Standing back a bit, I find myself in complete agreement with Chuck. That was what motivated my earlier comment that we were coming from a long way behind. Perhaps there is nothing we could do to overcome that deficit--in the end, it may be that our instruments just play too low for non-tuba players to perceive them as melody instruments.

Rick "not complaining" Denney

[WoodSheddin]

I suggest if you are willing to make a contribution you also contact Sean via private message.

Let's stick to brainstorming for the time being. We are not close to fundraising yet. If/when this materialises we can discuss grants, contributions, and premiers.

[Uncle Buck]

1. In my opinion, the most serious deficiency in the repertiore for tuba (with band or orchestra accompaniment) is the lack of a significant work designed specifically for contrabass tuba. I'm not talking about avoiding ANY use of the bass tuba range, but it would be nice to have a serious work that sits primarily in the contrabass range/timbre. (I realize that the Vaughan Williams can be played well on a CC or BBb, but it was clearly intended for an EEb or an F.) The details of this are clearly something that should be left up to the commissioned composer, but I'd be interested to see what a great composer could create with a directive to create a contrabass tuba work.

2. I want to throw one composer's name into the mix: Mack Wilberg. That's probably not a name known to most on this list. He is currently the associate conductor of the Mormon Tabernacle Choir, but is a fairly prolific composer of choral (much more well known in this genre) and orchestral works. He clearly falls into the realm of a "serious" composer, but probably doesn't carry the price tag of a Glass or Adams. Plus, he has shown a REMARKABLE ability to compose works with significant musical depth, but that are extremely "crowd friendly." He is someone who absolutely could be counted on to create something that will be both (A) satisfying to well-trained musicians; and (B) enjoyable for un-trained audiences to listen to.
Con - a work by him is less likely to be programmed by a major symphony.

[Steve Marcus]

In my opinion, the most serious deficiency in the repertiore for tuba (with band or orchestra accompaniment) is the lack of a significant work designed specifically for contrabass tuba. I'm not talking about avoiding ANY use of the bass tuba range, but it would be nice to have a serious work that sits primarily in the contrabass range/timbre. (I realize that the Vaughan Williams can be played well on a CC or BBb, but it was clearly intended for an EEb or an F.) The details of this are clearly something that should be left up to the commissioned composer, but I'd be interested to see what a great composer could create with a directive to create a contrabass tuba work.

That is one of the criteria that Gene Pokorny presented to John Stevens, which resulted in Journey. Unfortunately, it will be some time, if ever, before this piece joins the "mainstream." So Uncle Buck may have a good point.

About a year ago, Dave Zerkel published an interesting survey in the ITEA Journal about the practicality/level of difficulty of playing pieces in the current standard tuba repertoire on contrabass tuba. While almost all of them are playable on CC or BBb, Dave commented for a great number of them that they work better on bass tuba.

[Mudman]

1. In my opinion, the most serious deficiency in the repertiore for tuba (with band or orchestra accompaniment) is the lack of a significant work designed specifically for contrabass tuba. I'm not talking about avoiding ANY use of the bass tuba range, but it would be nice to have a serious work that sits primarily in the contrabass range/timbre. (I realize that the Vaughan Williams can be played well on a CC or BBb, but it was clearly intended for an EEb or an F.) The details of this are clearly something that should be left up to the commissioned composer, but I'd be interested to see what a great composer could create with a directive to create a contrabass tuba work.

A work playable on contra would be great: most of us play contrabass tubas. (But this might not be the most programmable instrument in the tuba family.) I would enjoy having a great addition to the repertoire that many college students would benefit by studying (on contra). Think about how often the Haddad suite is studied in tuba studios everywhere--imagine if a truly great work of art could be used as frequently.

The downside is that the lower and darker you go, the less clarity you get. It is hard for the listener to hear melodically in the lowest register. It takes many times more effort to shape phrases on a low instrument than it does on trumpet. At least a tuba projects better than a string bass (explaining the lack of great double-bass concerti).

Truth is, I would be thrilled to be a part of any new commissioning project for any member of the tuba family. Well, excepting euphonium or fluba

[ThomasDodd]

Well, excepting euphonium or fluba

What's wrong with the fluba, other than the difficulty aquiring one?

[Dan Castillo]

As far as meeting the criteria you outlined, Zwilich or Joan Tower would be the best fit. These two are both established, respected, and their music lies in a "middle ground" between modernism and Hollywood. What seals the deal for me is that they both have a great deal of experience writing SUCCESSFUL concertos for other instruments. Tower's Piano Concerto amazes me everytime I listen to it. Her concertos for violin, flute, and clarinet are also very exciting. Zwilich was chosen a few years ago by the Chicago Symphony to write two excellent trombone concertos.

The cost would be outrageous...but if we could get one of these two, future musicians would be VERY grateful.

That's my two cents. Please let me know how I can be of service.

[Chuck(G)]

I'm confused.

Is this composition supposed to appeal to other tuba players "Anything wtih a solo tuba part is peachy", to the university set "Isn't Karel Husa just wonderful" or to audiences in general "I know the words to Grandma got run over by a reindeer!"?

If it's the first two, you can hire on just about anyone with any kind of name and it'll get a standing ovation and get dragged out every once in awhile for someone's senior recital.

If it's the last, it's going to have to be on a par with "When Yuba Plays the Rhumba on the Tuba". Which is probably harder to write than most folks think.

I've got a couple of young middle-school trombone students who (a) have never seen a live orchestra and (b) didn't know that trombones were part of one. These are kids who are interested in music. Heaven knows what the masses wouild go for. Maybe something like the Vandals thing would have more mass appeal. Maybe a tuba player competing on "American Idol" (or "Fear Factor", pretty much the same thing)...

[Shockwave]

Nobody wants to hear concertos, especially not featuring a tuba. Give it up! Nobody cares about the tuba except as a novelty, and the novelty wears off after a few bars. If you want to increase the visibilty of tuba solos, petition Hollywood composers to include more prominent tuba solos in their scores. If your ego fills you with the desire to show off, learn to play trumpet like the rest of the show-offs, or learn to play jazz and be a briefly entertaining novelty like a dancing elephant.

-Eric

[Dan Castillo]

If it's the last, it's going to have to be on a par with "When Yuba Plays the Rhumba on the Tuba". Which is probably harder to write than most folks think.

Chuck,

The goal is a good piece. If it's quality, it'll be fine with all three groups.