Ein Prosit
Another York Question
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Lee Stofer
- 4 valves
- Posts: 935
- Joined: Mon Mar 22, 2004 7:50 am
Oh my goodness!
Now I know why my ears were burning! I've been so engrossed with building the new shop ( contractor is one month behind schedule and I could scream), that I have rarely had a moment to relax and visit the 'Net.
Of the statments of mine quoted form the past, I noticed one thing that is not correct. When I have chemically-cleaned, then bright-dipped York low brass instruments, primarily from the 1920's to mid' 1930's, I have noticed that the body was yellow and the bell was pink. This is a fairly subtle difference when they are polished and lacquered, and all-but-impossible to notice when silver-plated. I had surmised that these bells were formed from some sort of rose brass, or as the Germans put it, goldmessing. Now, I have discovered that these bells were not rose brass per-se, but a rather remarkable alloy that can be annealed to be extremely soft, but will quickly work-harden to an extreme, also. The unusual tendencies of this alloy would certainly make a perceptible difference in the response and tonal quality, I think.
The PT-606 is based upon measurements, as I understand it, of the York 4/4 CC tuba that Mr. Tucci once owned. I have played the 606, and do not think that it really plays like a York, although it is a good tuba. Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to purchase Mr. Tucci's old York from a gentleman in England and import it for a collector client of mine. He did not wish to have it shipped, but wanted me to keep it for about three months until he could drive to Iowa and pick it up. The collector told me to play it as much as I wished in the meantime ( I knew I would eventually get some kind of perk in this job!). So, I had the opportunity to practice and gig for three months on an original York CC tuba. It plays a lot differently from the PT-606, although the measurements are similar, and the two main differences I saw were the bell and the valveset. These Yorks were rather similar in size, even in brace design, to the old Kings, probably because of a York employee who moved to H.N. White at one point. But, I think the bottom line is the bell. That would be supported by the success that Sam Gnagey has had, grafting York bells onto King tuba bodies, and making very nice CC tubas.
I became so attached to the sound of that York in the three months that I had it, that I looked around for what would replace it when I had to give it to its owner. I am now playing an old King (and string bass) for my big band, dance orchestra and dixieland band jobs. It has a good sound as it is, but not that certain "Yorkness". I got so many good comments on my sound when playing the York tuba, that I know it wasn't just my imagination. I'm considering having Kanstul make me a bell for this tuba out of the York bell alloy. If it works, you'll be hearing about it.
Now I know why my ears were burning! I've been so engrossed with building the new shop ( contractor is one month behind schedule and I could scream), that I have rarely had a moment to relax and visit the 'Net.
Of the statments of mine quoted form the past, I noticed one thing that is not correct. When I have chemically-cleaned, then bright-dipped York low brass instruments, primarily from the 1920's to mid' 1930's, I have noticed that the body was yellow and the bell was pink. This is a fairly subtle difference when they are polished and lacquered, and all-but-impossible to notice when silver-plated. I had surmised that these bells were formed from some sort of rose brass, or as the Germans put it, goldmessing. Now, I have discovered that these bells were not rose brass per-se, but a rather remarkable alloy that can be annealed to be extremely soft, but will quickly work-harden to an extreme, also. The unusual tendencies of this alloy would certainly make a perceptible difference in the response and tonal quality, I think.
The PT-606 is based upon measurements, as I understand it, of the York 4/4 CC tuba that Mr. Tucci once owned. I have played the 606, and do not think that it really plays like a York, although it is a good tuba. Earlier this year, I had the opportunity to purchase Mr. Tucci's old York from a gentleman in England and import it for a collector client of mine. He did not wish to have it shipped, but wanted me to keep it for about three months until he could drive to Iowa and pick it up. The collector told me to play it as much as I wished in the meantime ( I knew I would eventually get some kind of perk in this job!). So, I had the opportunity to practice and gig for three months on an original York CC tuba. It plays a lot differently from the PT-606, although the measurements are similar, and the two main differences I saw were the bell and the valveset. These Yorks were rather similar in size, even in brace design, to the old Kings, probably because of a York employee who moved to H.N. White at one point. But, I think the bottom line is the bell. That would be supported by the success that Sam Gnagey has had, grafting York bells onto King tuba bodies, and making very nice CC tubas.
I became so attached to the sound of that York in the three months that I had it, that I looked around for what would replace it when I had to give it to its owner. I am now playing an old King (and string bass) for my big band, dance orchestra and dixieland band jobs. It has a good sound as it is, but not that certain "Yorkness". I got so many good comments on my sound when playing the York tuba, that I know it wasn't just my imagination. I'm considering having Kanstul make me a bell for this tuba out of the York bell alloy. If it works, you'll be hearing about it.
Lee A. Stofer, Jr.
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Chuck(G)
- 6 valves
- Posts: 5679
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 12:48 am
- Location: Not out of the woods yet.
- Contact:
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Wyvern
- Wessex Tubas
- Posts: 5033
- Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2006 7:00 pm
- Location: Hampshire, England when not travelling around the world on Wessex business
- Contact:
Has anyone had a PT606 made with "goldmessing" bell to see how it plays? Is not "goldmessing" not gold brass which the Germans use a lot? In which case surely B&S would make one to order.
Otherwise a handmade Baer with gold brass bell would be interesting.
I have found that the gold brass on my 2040/5 does make a difference to the sound, at least to my perception. Somehow more refined.
Otherwise a handmade Baer with gold brass bell would be interesting.
I have found that the gold brass on my 2040/5 does make a difference to the sound, at least to my perception. Somehow more refined.
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MartyNeilan
- 6 valves
- Posts: 4876
- Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:06 am
- Location: Practicing counting rests.
(In relation to the 6/4 Kalison's)
For the heck of it, I took some measurements of my 2001 tonight. According to Chris Olka's for sale posting, the MW2165 bells have a bottom diameter of nearly 6". I measured the circumference of the bell where it meets the ferrule of the bottom bow on the Kalison, and it is right at 18 3/4". Allowing for a little tapering down within the ferrule, it would put the diameter of the small side of the bell at about 5.95". The big end of the bell measures a hair under 19 1/2". I agree that the horn is slightly more conical than the huge Holton's; it is probably in the same class as the 2265 and PCK.the elephant wrote:The bell/bottom bow connection diameter is at least a full inch smaller. The bell tapers very quickly. It is a very big horn but it tapers like a giant version of the Yamaha 621 series: medium-large-ish bows and a fast tapering bell.
Adjunct Instructor, Trevecca Nazarene University