"downsizing" contrabass tubas...

[Rivercity Tuba]

I equate playing a 6/4 tuba like driving high performance car.

Having owned five or six different German-made ones (pitched in C) and one US-made one (pitched in Bb), I would sorta describe it as the opposite.

maneuverability/response - sluggish
steering - off
flashiness factor - more so: when standing still

I'll gladly openly admit that the fad has sustained itself (so far: 35 years ) since a Swiss maker first made a sort-of copy of an ancient US-made one...and (again) I believe the fad has sustained itself via a "H-D motorcycle-ish" type of appeal. (i.e. "Wow! Look at THAT! Do YOU know what THAT is?"), but I do predict that it will eventually wane, and that the wane will be from the top-down. (Who still manufactures "jumbo" sousaphones? Why not?)

Again, the Yamaha 826S (reviewing: considerably cheaper than a decent fiddle, and right around the price of a decent bassoon) is the best I've encountered of all the 6/4-size instruments in the CC dept. - as is the Seigfried in the BBb dept. (both very well-deserving of their retail prices), but (though I probably didn't spend enough purchasing it to demonstrate that I'm "serious" in my pursuit self-improvement of my "art") I still prefer what I have (perhaps a half-size down in size, but a size up in maneuverability/response/steering...oh, and - when I race the engine, I like the sound of mine better (plenty of body, roundless, power, even jollity, yet with more ~clarity~) .

Often we see people being chosen for high-profile(-to-us) full-time playing positions (based on the sonic appeal they had to a committee of musicians in the ensemble - when they were using a particular instrument) and then promptly-or-eventually going off and purchasing a totally different-sounding instrument. Of those who have done this (as a mostly-silent up until now fly-on-the-wall regarding this particular phenomenon), I've seen one (an extremely thoughtful and analytical player) who (tuba-wise) seemed to have made (what I consider to be) some very smart post-hire equipment choices.

The topic is not so much "what is popular" or "what would really sell a bucket load at a low enough price point, but (rather) what is truly of the most use to a tuba player sitting behind c. 20 good fiddle players, and that most facilitates that player in carrying out their assigned tasks (i.e. per typical bloke threads: a far more controversial topic).

Bloke is spot on as usual

6/4 = Tractor Trailer Truck. I have heard one of the most prominent orchestral tuba players in the world say this and I agree.

[pwhitaker]

Last summer I sold my last BAT - a 1941 Holton 105 - and purchased a 1938 York 716 and a York Master. This was done because I'm too creaky, then being 74, to effectively cart around a 30+ lb piece of brass. I had been playing BAT's almost exclusively for 10 years up to that point and really enjoyed the PRESENCE and gravitas of the old American BAT. I also used a Rudy 5/4 BBb during that time which was also very satifying but, unfortunately, too fragile for me. I've been playing for nearly 65 years and have never had a horn like the York. It excels in all aspects (intonation, timbre, responsiveness etc.) and have received many kudos when using it. A previous poster likened moving from a 6/4 to 5/4 as removing the training weights from running shoes and that is a very good analogy. So I'm in Bloke's camp.

[southtubist]

I think the Alex 163 sort of falls in the 5/4 category. Realistically, I think I could do 95% of my playing (including large orchestra and band) on my 4/4 F tuba and still sound tasteful. It would take some specific practice, but it would be do-able.

I like the sound of a good F tuba player with a good trombone section. The blend is really nice.

[pjv]

Britain has been doing just this for years, but on Eb's.
Sure, some will take up a CC or BBb at times, but not all of the tuba players do this.

[Rick Denney]

Britain has been doing just this for years, but on Eb's.
Sure, some will take up a CC or BBb at times, but not all of the tuba players do this.

They certainly used to. I have a photo from Bevans's first edition of George Wall playing a very large Alexander--probably a 164. And we all know about Fletch's Holton. There are surely British orchestras these days where the tuba player will do everything on his Eb Sovereign, but it will absolutely provide a different sound in the orchestra.

To me, the point of an instrument like the Holton is a tonal structure that carries without being loud (my definition of "presence") or sounding like loud playing. But not all big tubas really do that. Those that do are more efficient; those that don't are less efficient. It's hard to generalize too much about big tubas.

Of course, some 5/4 tubas are as much of an air hog or scale nightmare as the worst of 6/4 tubas. So, among the great tubas, a few are 6/4, more are smaller. I think that's about the only thing I know for sure.

Rick "not thinking the average Eb Sovereign really sounds that much like the average German orchestral F tuba, however" Denney

[Peach]

Britain has been doing just this for years, but on Eb's.
Sure, some will take up a CC or BBb at times, but not all of the tuba players do this.

They certainly used to. I have a photo from Bevans's first edition of George Wall playing a very large Alexander--probably a 164. And we all know about Fletch's Holton. There are surely British orchestras these days where the tuba player will do everything on his Eb Sovereign, but it will absolutely provide a different sound in the orchestra.

To me, the point of an instrument like the Holton is a tonal structure that carries without being loud (my definition of "presence") or sounding like loud playing. But not all big tubas really do that. Those that do are more efficient; those that don't are less efficient. It's hard to generalize too much about big tubas.

Of course, some 5/4 tubas are as much of an air hog or scale nightmare as the worst of 6/4 tubas. So, among the great tubas, a few are 6/4, more are smaller. I think that's about the only thing I know for sure.

Rick "not thinking the average Eb Sovereign really sounds that much like the average German orchestral F tuba, however" Denney

There are indeed some in the UK using Eb for everything but, like most countries these days, most pros with full time symphony jobs try to use the right tool for the job (or at least close to). In practice that tends to mean one smaller tuba and one bigger tuba used almost all of the time. It is rare to find a UK symphony pro regularly using a bunch of different horns.

Which instruments these guys choose to play is almost always a 19" bell B&H/Besson Eb and a large C tuba (PT-6 possibly most common but all sorts including Thor, Yamayork, 2165 [Patrick!?]).
Four things I find interesting -
1. Fletch used his Holtons a lot in the LSO, moreso than the Eb so I hear (someone might want to confirm or deny this).
2. Nobody seems to play Bb these days even though our German chums do and most UK players treat the Eb as their go-to horn so the big horn is for the really meaty stuff
3. Nobody seems to regularly play F
4. The same thing Joe set out with tubas seems to be happening with bass trombones to some extent where players are enjoying the range of colours available from slightly smaller equipment - horns as well as particularly mouthpieces.