New Alexander 163 CC tubas

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Cthuba
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New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by Cthuba »

Hi!

I was curious is anyone has played the new Alexander 163 tubas and how they play!
Gnagey 4/4

That which is dead can eternal lie and with many strange aeons even tubas will fly
-A Misquote from HP Lovecraft.
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Re: New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by Ted Cox »

We love to romanticize old tubas, and certainly Alexander tubas. The short answer is, they have remarkable similarities to the older Alex's. I own four! When I was at the factory 10 years ago, I played a new Alex 163 CC and a new 155 F. They were Alexander through and through. When I sat down with Philipp Alexander, I asked him what the main difference was between the older instruments and the newer instruments and he immediately said, the raw materials - meaning, the brass. I choose to play Alexander tubas because of their unique sound - and I think of myself as a sound artist, because that's really what we're doing on the instrument - trying to create the most beautiful sound possible. Why is a Stradivarius violin so desirable? Alexander tubas will teach you how to play the tuba. Any weakness in one's playing will become apparent. They take time and patience. The payoff is the sound - that is, if that's the sound you wish to achieve. It's not for everyone. Intonation and Alexander tubas has become synonymous. If your ability to play in tune with yourself and others is weak, an Alexander will point that out - but that isn't the tubas fault. The Kaiser 164's reputation for being horribly out of tune is well known. My 2004 CC five valve 164 has taken some time to navigate, but there isn't a note on the horn I can't play in tune. There is a serious "wow" factor with the 164, and if I had to tell you what the difference is between a 163 and a 164, I'd say the 164 has twice the sound of a 163. My 164 was greatly improved by cutting an inch off the first valve slide. I know, it sounds radical, but it worked and something to consider. My brass 163 had the same thing done to it once upon a time. There was a fairly new 163 for sale here not too long ago. If it has 5 valves, I'd take a chance on it and not be deterred by the age.
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Re: New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by Lee Stofer »

Alexander tubas of any vintage are well-designed, and will be superb players if correctly assembled. I think that the newer Alexanders tend to have been soldered together better than the older ones in general, so although the new ones may not be perfect, they tend to be more consistent. For example, I have worked on two Alexander goldbrass 163 CC tubas, owned by the same customer, as well as his goldbrass 173 CC. The older 163 was previously owned by the late Dave Bragunier of the National Symphony. When my client obtained the instrument, he shipped it to me for complete restoration. He asked that I replace the old nickel-silver guards with new ones, which I ordered. I did not use them, because they are at least 1/2" narrower than the old guards, and would have shown ugly lines in the brass. The old guards were of such quality that they turned out fine. I was most impressed that anyone had played this horn professionally, as we discovered that 2nd valve circuit was the ONLY part of the ENTIRE instrument that was not leaking. Every other joint on the instrument was leaking. After some dent work and a massive amount of cleaning and tinning joints, we reassembled it, buffed and polished, then lacquered it, and it now plays as well in tune as any CC tuba that I know of.
I also did some work on this client's goldbrass 163 CC that was maybe 10 years old, a much newer-style Alexander. Although they were not as profound as the problems with the 1956-vintage 163, the intonation and response were a bit less than perfect on this one as well. I searched through the instrument, and found that the small-side main tuning slide outer tube had a glob of solder on the inside, which was solder that had missed it's mark - the tube was leaking. After simply pulling the tube off, removing the glob, cleaning and tinning the joint, and correct reassembly, this Alexander had a great sound, easier response and great intonation with no slide pulling.
These tubas are not for the unmotivated player. Playing them is physical work, as it has an .812" bore, but if you apply yourself to practicing and playing one of these, you can get amazing results.
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Re: New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by bort »

I'm not sure how old my Alex 163 is, but I bought it from Lee, and it passed his "no leaking joints" testing. He told me it was a special tuba and that when an Alex of any age is properly assembled, it will play great and be an excellent tuba.

He was right. I don't quite have the adjectives to describe how and why it is so good... but it's the best tuba I've ever played. Intonation is as good as anything else, and the sound is unforgettable. As in, you play it and then think "hey wait, that was me?"

Roughly speaking, I've heard people say that a new Alex has like 10% less magic than the old ones, but are more consistent and better intonation.

Lee may very well be right about the construction. The legend has it that the old tubas we're built by the less experienced staff at Alexander, since the A team was focused on their most important product, the French Horn. And even if not that, they still didn't make many tubas, comparitively... And whoever made a great tuba may not have worked on the next one at all.
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Re: New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by Ted Cox »

There are so many "legend" stories to sort through when it comes to Alexander tubas, it's challenging to know which one's are true. These stories get passed on as fact sometimes. Today, 90% of Alexander's production are their expansive horn line. 5% is trumpets and Wagner tubas and the other 5% tubas. I believe I was the first American to be allowed inside their new production facility in September of 2011. In the main production room was a large work table - and on the table was an F and a 164 being constructed - quite slowly. The shop foreman was not only doing his work, but overseeing everyone else's work too. The man I saw working on the two tubas may have been the oldest person in the shop - and probably has worked for Alexander longer than the foreman. Everyone I saw in the building was working carefully and at their own pace. Nothing seemed rushed. Had anyone reading this post sat in the room also, you would have noticed the exact same thing. Quality above quantity. Other than the space the production crew works in, I can't imagine much has changed over the decades. There was one apprentice in the room and he was closely supervised. It makes sense to me that if so few tubas are being produced compared to the horns, you would want the most experienced person constructing the tubas.
One other story I hear a lot is the one about Bb tubas being cut to make CC tubas. Not true! Look at the catalog posted and you'll notice CC tubas were being constructed for well over 100 years.
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Re: New Alexander 163 CC tubas

Post by bort »

Ted Cox wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:21 am One other story I hear a lot is the one about Bb tubas being cut to make CC tubas. Not true! Look at the catalog posted and you'll notice CC tubas were being constructed for well over 100 years.
Maybe they've just been cutting them for well over 100 years. :roll: :tuba:
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