Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

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MKTuba
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Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by MKTuba »

Though I am still a sophomore in my undergrad, I have begun the process of beginning to compile a list of potential schools to begin my graduate work at. I know people will tell me not to worry about it, and "I still have time" but I am just a meticulous planner by nature, and would like to have the foundation of a plan laid out soon.

What I am looking for are universities that offer some sort of "Low Brass Doublers" degree. I have heard people talk about this, and my university offers a "Multiple Woodwinds" degree, so I am certain that something like this must exist for us low brass players. I am particularly looking for a place that I can study Euphonium, Tenor, and Bass trombone in addition to Tuba which is my primary instrument. It would be a HUGE plus if the university offered an assistantship for this position.

Because of me adding a double major in Psychology, as well as doing my first two semesters as a Music Ed major before switching to performance, I will take about 5 1/2 years (11 semesters) to finish up my undergraduate work, though with full time summer semesters I could totally shorten that down by at least 2 regular semesters. The point is, It will probably be the fall of 26 or 27 that I would be entering this degree.

Another option I am considering is doing a double masters in euphonium and bass trombone, or maybe tuba and bass trombone though I am not sure what the best way to do this would be. Again, I would prefer a full assistantship.

If anyone has any advice, or could weigh in on schools with programs like this I would appreciate the advice.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by arpthark »

Howdy. Former tuba 'formance major here. I do not know of any programs that are what you are exactly describing.

However, Ben Pierce at Arkansas is an amazing player on both euph and tuba. You might reach out to him to see if he has any advice on the steps he took to be at the top of his field in both instruments.

My sense is that you don't really need a doubler's degree to be really-damn-good at more than one brass instrument, but I certainly understand the desire for structure, lessons, etc.

My advice would be to reach out to those schools that you are very interested in for your primary instrument and ask if you would be able to take lessons on a secondary instrument as well.

During the course of my master's degree and PhD in music theory, I was able to take tuba lessons, composition lessons, perform in an early music ensemble playing the bass recorder, and even got a certification in postsecondary education. You aren't necessarily pigeonholed in what your degree is if you have the drive for it, and as long as you demonstrate that you can fulfill all the major requirements and if there is space available in other areas of interest, I'd say most people would be happy to have a student whose main instrument may be something else.

(You probably know this, but never pay anything for your master's degree if you can help it. Go where the money is.)

Just my two cents.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by MKTuba »

I guess I might not have been clear about this, but I absolutely agree with what you are saying and don’t at all think you NEED a degree in performance to perform. Honestly the only reason I switched to tuba performance from music Ed is because I made the realization that even though it was my backup plan all along, i have absolutely no motivation to teach middle or high school. I never wanted to to begin with but was planning on doing the undergrad in music ed, grad In performance route. Also, I realized that adding a double major in a non music would make it so I can go out and get a “day gig” that pays well should I need it, and would allow me to shave 20 credits off my degree by cutting out the extra education credits.

To be honest with you, if I happen to be one of the people that wins an audition before I finish my degree(s) I don’t know that I would ever finish it. The problem with that is that my ultimate goal is to teach college (which is why I want the low brass doublers degree. I feel it is an entrepreneurial decision to be capable of teaching more than one low brass instrument at a high level) and many places would require some graduate work to even be considered for a position.

Something else that would be possible, and would be okay for me would be if the university offers “non major” lessons. Here at msu you can take a 1 credit 30 minute lesson on any instrument (I’m actually taking piano lessons right now, but not by choice. We have a built in “piano minor” for performance majors). I should actually be starting bass trombone lessons next fall, fingers crossed. If other programs have a similiar set up I would be interested In pursuing that route as well. I am just holding out for some sort of low brass doubler, or maybe low brass pedagogy(?) degree at the masters level.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by arpthark »

re: day gig -- like 99.9% of tuba players, my primary source of income is a field other than tuba (I am in the library field), although I do maintain a high standard for my own personal tuba playing, have a teaching studio of local students, play in community groups (occasionally remunerated) and perform solo recitals. I also teach a ton of trombone students and judge band festival auditions and things like that. point: you can stay involved and enriched by music even if you're in another field.

I agree with your point about doubling being an entrepreneurial benefit. Most of my private lesson income comes from trombone students. As I'm sure you know, many smaller college and universities require you to teach all low brass.

My advice from that standpoint would actually be to take a "working backwards" approach here: what sort of position do you envision yourself in? Do you think you will teach at a college where you'll be asked to teach lessons on trombone, tuba, and euphonium? If so, try to find those schools (mostly smaller regional universities) and then find out who teaches in that position. Then, find out what their credentials are and what their qualifications are. How did they get the job? Might be worth an email conversation. I think you'll find that most of them only have degrees in a primary instrument. But, times are changing, so who knows what the hiring committees of 2027 will want to see?

Stay flexible and focused. It's great that you're asking these questions now and are starting to plan for the future.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by eutubabone »

I received a MM Low Brass performance and pedagogy ( bass trombone, euphonium and tuba) at Ithaca college School of Music. Had to do a masters final recital performing on all three. Took me 2 years to complete it because of the assistantship I was given- perform German, Italian, French and English art songs for piano accompiament classes for voice majors, work in choral library and coach undergraduate brass ensembles. I think Ithaca was the only one offering that degree at that time ,1977-79. Might still have it?
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by eutubabone »

Art songs on voice, lyric tenor, of course.🙂 voice minor in undergrad and sang in a couple of part-time opera companies before going to Ithaca
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by MKTuba »

arpthark wrote: Sat Oct 29, 2022 10:59 pm re: day gig -- like 99.9% of tuba players, my primary source of income is a field other than tuba
While I understand that this is a reality of the industry, I am still hopeful that I can foster a career where music makes up the majority of income. However, my double major in psychology will certainly help me to land a day gig and make good money should I need to take that route.

My ideal career would be eventually teaching at a college where I could teach all low brass. I have been a "doubler" for most of my musical life, and would love to continue that into my professional life. I have friends who have positions like this, and while generally they are at smaller schools I think it would be a possibility to have a role like this in a larger university. Above all else I am most passionate about chamber music. If I could enter a school of music as a Tuba/Euph prof, for instance, but still lead chamber ensembles that include the trombone I would be happy. You have given me some great advice and I really appreciate it!

eutubabone: Thank you for the recommendation to that college. I will look into it. I don't have much choral experience, but have always been interested in it. I did a semester in my university mens glee club which was a lot of fun, and would love the opportunity to learn more about choral music. I wonder if that assistantship still includes the work in the choral library?
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by eutubabone »

I don't know, it's was 45 years ago when I started on my masters, so the degree offerings may have changed. You'll have to contact them.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by Sousaswag »

Michael, I was just like you when I was a sophomore. The reality I faced was that I’m not good enough to get that big orchestra job, I have no desire to join the military, and I also am not motivated enough to try and get good enough, spend all that money on more school to win that once in a lifetime job.

Good on you for double majoring. I think that’s vital. I also found that I really enjoy teaching- that’s where we split. However, nobody’s saying you can’t be a performer and a something else in life.

I won’t lie to you- and you probably know already that making a career 100% in music is a hard task and teaching it is one of the best routes one can take other than winning that job. Teaching is also not for everyone and having something else to do that is your day job is super necessary to make the money.

As far as a “low brass guy” degree- if someone is offering it, go for it. Otherwise, do NOT pay anything for grad school. Get an assistantship somewhere. You don’t actually take many courses in grad school, so you might be able to use that time to take lessons on those other instruments. You’d likely have to pay for it but if it’s between that and no assistantship you do what you gotta do.

I want to emphasize the point of having as little debt as possible- in today’s economy it’s hard for 20-something’s to afford all that we need. Limiting debt will be helpful in the long run.

Consider a military gig too- that’s a great way to do music that’s much more achievable than the big orchestra gig.
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Re: Low Brass "Doublers" Degree.

Post by MKTuba »

Thanks for the reply David. Great points.

I have no interest or passion for teaching band music, however I would absolutely love to teach at the collegiate level, and honestly would be willing to teach almost any course. Like you said, the performance industry is obviously a hard one to break into. I am still going to try, and hope for the best, but it won’t kill me if I don’t make it.

I don’t think I’m cut out for the military band life, which is a real shame because I prefer band playing to orchestra playing by far. I have had a fairly complicated medical history and would not be eligible to join the military, so my only shot would be the 2 premier bands that don’t require boot camp.

Like we have talked about in the past, I have a really great financial situation at msu. After my scholarship, I only pay about 3k tuition per semester, which I have been able to manager out of pocket so far. I should graduate with less than 10k, and definitely not more than 20k in loans. I don’t intend on doing any graduate work unless I can get an assistantship. There are just so many options for schools that have full assistantships that it would be foolish to go somewhere I have to pay.

You raise a good point about using the free time from low course loads to learn these other instruments. Like I have said here, and on the discussion I started on trombone chat, I am fine getting a degree that just says “tuba performance” on it, permitting I am able to study euphonium and trombone as well. It would be a huge bonus if I could get large ensemble experience on these other instruments, but there are always community bands and subbing in regional groups so I guess I have that covered.
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