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bloke wrote:Might this just be an alternately engraved B&S F tuba?

It is. Sergio and I have corresponded, and he tells me that it looks just like the picture I have of my B&S.

Rick "noting that Sergio is a most qualified tuba player" Denney

What's the serial number range?

Mine's in the 7x,xxx range iirc and I've guestimated it's from the early seventies.

Not everything about the GDR was bad. They made some good quality instruments with minimal recourses. There were a lot of good small orchestras and a number of major ones including the Dresden Staatskapelle and the Gewandhaus orchestra in Leipzig. They excelled at playing exactly this type of F which had become old-fashioned in West Germany. John

bloke wrote:... "Perantucci" capillary bore...

Bloke,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Would you please explain a bit more?

Thanks

bloke wrote:

JB wrote:

bloke wrote:... "Perantucci" capillary bore...

Bloke,

I'm not quite sure what you mean by this. Would you please explain a bit more?

Thanks

Comparing the "Symphonie" and "Perantucci" versions, once the third or fourth valve is reached (from the mouthpiece end) these versions are identical in bore size and in the taper of the bugle. The "capillary" part of an instrument refers to the size and taper of the bore at the small end of an instrument. Typically (on most all wind instruments) changes here effect the players' "feel" much more than they do the actual sonic and intonation factors - though minor effects can also be noticed in these aspects.

Thanks for the clear explanation; what you describe makes sense.

I had not heard this term used in this way (applied to brass instruments) previously. Is it commonly used (and I've just been existing in the armpit of the world, out of the loop for too long...), or is this your own adaption/ description?

bloke wrote:

JB wrote:I had not heard this term used in this way (applied to brass instruments) previously. Is it commonly used (and I've just been existing in the armpit of the world, out of the loop for too long...), or is this your own adaption/ description?

Brass players mostly use groups of words or sentences to describe this part of their instruments, rather than the single word "capillary". I borrowed the term from the woodwind vernacular...in particular, the word is commonly used to describe the bore of an oboe before it reaches any of the "open" wooden tone holes (The upper octave key vents are "exempt", and still considered to be in the capillary area of the oboe.)

Many tuba players would consider the "capillary" part to only include the mouthpipe tube, but (unlike the other brass instruments, which have become mostly - with obvious exceptions - standardized) the lengths of tuba mouthpipes (particularly as a percentage of an entire instrument) vary drastically. That is one reason why I feel I have "license" to include the valves in the "capillary" part of a particular tuba.

Thanks for the lesson -- most appreciated.

The state conglomerated GDR brass making companies worked in a modular way, which reflected the organisation of the production in the old days of independent masters owning each their own workshops.

Some masters designed, assembled, and finished instruments made out of parts made by other masters specialising in bell-making, valve blocks, bows, and branches.

The GDR conglomerates used various names, where B&S and Musima were big in the brass market.

The top models like B&S had the exact same acoustic outlay as the the second line Weltklang. Only the latter were assembled by apprentices and journeymen not having finished the 12 years long master education. They also most often had fewer valves, than the top line: Single Bb horns with only 3 valves. F tubas with only 3 or 4 valves. S-links in stead of ball-and-socket joints.

The GDR instruments represented high value for their price, because they were part of the "Devisenbeschaffung" - getting currencies convertible to US$. DKr were convertible, so I have many fine GDR instruments in my collection.

However GDR also operated on a secondary market: That of the Warsaw pact (actually the COMECON in trade contexts) countries, which would cheat anybody to get $$, including GDR.

After I started monitoring brass auctions all over the world, I found an odd pattern:

Sellers out of Bulgaria and Rumania would offer instruments with all the features of the high end B&S lines, but stamped with the names of the cheaper lines.

I have followed European politics fairly close since I could read 50+ years ago. I have lived in Germany 1947-1958 and I have been in GDR and have seen how corrupt the state, not the employés, was.

GDR had an impressive holiday system for its workers to keep them calm. Also along the Black Sea coast of Rumania and Bulgaria. I have been there and seen its remains.

My not too far fetched guess is, that the GDR provided high end instruments to the fine orchestras in Rumania and Bulgaria in exchange for the holiday facilities. Only they stamped them with the low end model names to avoid the Balkan states from re-exporting them with a profit.

I could go on for long, but will stop here.

Klaus

It wasn't my intention to say anything besides that Sérgio has got himself a very nice and very underrated F tuba. Thanks to Klaus for illuminating the origin of the Weltklang stamp on a superior instrument. The constant spying and interference at every level of life in the GDR was scandalous, and I did not mean to condone it in any way. I do mean to say that these German craftsmen turned out very good instruments while living in a much lower lifestyle category than the West Germans. John