any experience with Besson New Standard BBb 19" bell versions - does such a horn exist?

[A.N.Other]

Hi all,

I have a Besson New Standard 4 valve comp from 1967 with the 17" bell planning to be restored. I read in several posts that there were transition models existing with a 19" bell. Does anyone have experience with those instruments?

As the tuba needs some substantial rework anyway, I wonder if changing/enlarging the bell will help in larger orchestra settings where the 17" bell has its limits regardless of the mouthpiece. And yes, I am aware of the potential costs also in relation of the instrument's current worth .

I am used to the 3+1 ergonomics for 20 years now and like the playing characteristics of the instrument very much. But I am looking for an even broader darker sound with more loudness reserve.

For all other settings I have a classic German Kaisertuba and also a small F-Tuba.

Thanks!

[kathott]

Hello, a few months ago, I sold a rare New Standard EEb, 19” bell, from the same period. It was a fantastic instrument, but it played very differently from my mid 1980’s Sovereign EEb. The deciding performing factor I felt, was related to the leadpipe & receiver. The New Standard’s is small, and the Sovereign’s is large.
Both these instruments have 19” bells, but I don’t feel that bell size was a significant factor in either volume or tone colour.
I have owned & and played many B&H Eb’s.
Conclusion: the original New Standard Eb (19” bell) is much closer to a classic small Imperial Eb, while the Sovereign (19” bell) has a much broader, darker sound and less of a traditional ‘brass band’ delivery.
K.

[A.N.Other]

First of all thanks for the quick answer!

Your observation seems to be logical at least regarding the sound characteristics as the New Standard BBb has a small (similar to "American") receiver and leadpipe, too.

As a conclusion, it is seems unlikely resulting in having a fog horn. But I understand your post a a recommendation to leave it as is.

The instrument is a great and well balanced player in general, that's the reason why I want to restore it. Also, it is far from being too stuffy in the low range which might be related to the larger 4th valve bore.

[TubaBeage]

I have the same instrument as you with the 17" bell and the sound volume is very impressive and the tone holds together very well at high volumes.
I would say it is better at loud than the 994 Sovereign with the 19" bell which tends to break up more easily. The sound on the 17" is much more direct where as the 994 is more of a blanket (better for a brass band, less so for "solo" type playing).
My 17" has a large MP receiver (bored out original) which has made it slightly more open.
Mike Johnson in the UK may be able to advise you as he has plenty of experience with these horns.
https://m-j-c.co.uk/customising/index.html

[kathott]

Apologies. I misread your remarks, which pertained to BBb models, and disgorged a lot of information on my Eb experiences.

[A.N.Other]

Thanks for all the contribution, also regarding the EEb version.

As the Tuba is already waiting for restoration which will be expensive anyway, I am collecting hints for issues to adress in addition. E.g. I want to have additional water keys, at least for the long 3rd valve slide.

The leadpipe on my instrument was either realigned or changed, also the receiver might have been changed and fits "American size" perfectly, definitely not "European" (fit "OK"). Intonation tendencies stay mouthpiece independent almost perfect, if one ist aware that Ab in the staff tends to be low, BBb below the Staff tends to be high - both easlily lipped into tune.

So Mike Johnson seems to be definitely the specialist to ask what can and should be done, thanks!

[Bbfoghorn]

FWIW, I have a New Standard Bb 3 valve that was fantastic. I pirated the bell for a 4 valve recording bell Besson conversion. The 3v changed hands and the owner put a 19" Bell from Mack brass on it. I don't know how it played for him, but when I re-acquired the horn and tried to play it with my usual Helleberg mp for that horn it was horrible. Intonation all over the place. other mps were not much better, at least for me. a 981 EEb I had recently purchased had a tarnished Wick 3L that came with it. I wasn't expecting much, but what a difference! All the old locked-in tones were back. The 3 is a bit limiting for hard playing but it does save the lungs & lips from overblowing. I eventually moved to the 2.5CC Heritage for that horn. I find the 19" bell does give a bigger darker sound but it projects more. You can't hear it as well while playing as the original 17". Odd, but true.

[A.N.Other]

Thanks for the input, the 19" bell seems to be a modification that might not work out for certain setups as one might think at first. The general restoration is already decided but I still have ro think about and evaluate options with the Tuba maker.