Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

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sgf
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Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

Post by sgf »

I spent a lot of 2023 in archives and found a document, written by Friedrich Wilhelm Wieprecht in 1835 (same year he invented the tuba). It describes the fingerings for his tuba, and I suspect this may be the very first tuba fingering chart. I thought it might be nice to share:
Screenshot_20240113_101945.jpg
In summary, Wieprecht developed the tuba so that a valve combination could be used to access all 12 notes of the scale in the second partial. These valve combinations were:
  • F2: open
  • E2: 1
  • Eb2: 2
  • D2: 1+2
  • Db2: 1+2+4
  • C2: 5
  • B1: 5+4
  • Bb1: 5+3
  • A1: 5+4+3
  • Ab1: 5+4+3+2
  • G1: 5+4+3+1
  • Gb1: 5+4+3+2+1

Heinrich Stozel invented the first valve in 1814 and used it in a 2-valve configuration on his horn, then quickly adapted it for the trumpet. The two valve configuration was the main brass configuration until Francois Perinet developed today's 3-valve system in 1829. The two valve system was:
  1. Whole tone below the mother-tone
  2. Half tone below the mother-tone
The Wieprecht tuba clearly draws inspiration from Stozel's 2-valve scheme. He even worked directly with Stozel in 1827/1828 to develop the Berlin valves that were used on this tuba. Open-bugle, this tuba plays F2 in its second partial. Wieprecht calls this the "mother-tone". The first valve is used to extend the length so that the tuba is a half-tone lower. The second valve extends it so that the tuba is a whole tone lower.

Wieprecht introduces the concept of a "2nd mother-tone", by using the fifth valve to lower the tuba by a fourth to get C. He then repeats the two-valve concept with the 3rd and 4th valve lowering the pitch from C by a half, and full tone. You could call these valves the long-whole-tone and a long-half-tone. Wieprecht's 5-valve configuration is therefore:
  1. Half tone below F (mother tone)
  2. Whole tone below F (mother tone)
  3. Whole tone below C (2nd mother tone)
  4. Half tone below C (2nd mother tone)
  5. Fourth below F (C, the 2nd mother tone)
The reason why I'm posting this is there seems to be a problem with this fingering. For example, when going from Ab to G, Wieprecht swaps the short-whole-tone valve to the short-half-tone and expects the pitch to decrease. If I crunch the numbers for the valve lengths and the resulting pitches, I get :
  • F2: in-tune
  • E2: in-tune
  • Eb2: in-tune
  • D2: 11 cents sharp
  • Db2: 2 cents flat
  • C2: in-tune
  • B1: in-tune
  • Bb1: in-tune
  • A1: 11 cents sharp
  • Ab1: 19 cents flat
  • G1: 147 cents sharp
  • Gb1: 122 cents sharp
It's hard to call it a G when it's 147 cents sharp. What's up with that? Have any of you tried playing a G1 or Gb1 on a replica of the Wieprecht tuba? Maybe there is a reason we don't use Wieprecht's valve configuration today. Was Wieprecht simply in a rush to beat the valved ophicleide?
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Re: Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

Post by Snake Charmer »

Given the fact that this fingering system with this amount of valves was invented from scratch it seems quite perfect! At least compared to those three-valved contrabass trumpet things you still can find in a lot of bands.

One info for those wondering about the nomenclature: valves are numbered from top to bottom, so 1 and 2 are left hand, 3-5 right hand.

Yes, in this valve layout was room for making things better and this was made with the vienna system:
an extra valve was added in the left hand, lowering a third. Some manufacturers made it three half-steps, some four, doesn't matter. In both cases it made the low G and Gb easier to play. The normal trick without the sixth valve would be playing the G with all valves and the Gb lipped and aired up from fundamental F (like low B on a fourvalve Bb horn!)-
If you now look on the valve lenghts of the vienna tuba you have only to re-arrange the fingering and you get a modern F tuba. Not all 190 year old inventions worked out so well!
And yes, the system was inspired by the ophicleide. The instrument could be used chromatically from the fundamental (and even better: nearly on octave below it!) and you have to use both hands. For this two facts the F tuba is a different instrument to all those tuba looking things coming from three valves and adding some later (the Riedl origin)
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Re: Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

Post by sgf »

What a fantastic response.

I've read about the Vienna system here on TubeNet. Is this the same as the Wiener system described in this Albert Kley tuba description?

https://brassandpipes.wordpress.com/201 ... nt-page-1/

As for the Riedl origin, I've never heard of that. Is this the same Joseph Reidl of Vienna who patented the double-piston valve in 1823 and the rotary valve in 1832 (...or was it '35)? I might need to plan a trip to the Vienna archives next!
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Re: Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

Post by Snake Charmer »

Exactly this Vienna system like the Kley tuba. As said, the third valve (left hand) varied between different manufacturers between a shorter whole tone like Kley and two whole steps. Alexander delivered for some time two slides for 3 or 4 half steps. You can see the system with Kontrabasstuba's newest post on a cimbasso, cool as ever!
Valve inventor Joseph Riedl started the "other tuba invention" also in 1835 when he offered an "Ophikleide mit Maschin" (Ophicleide with valves). This was a tall and slender built thing with three rotary valves called the "Riedl-Radl-Maschin" (Radl is Austrian for small wheel!).
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Re: Fingerings for the original Wieprecht tuba

Post by sgf »

I've been enjoying The Met Museum's online collection a lot lately. Your description of the valved ophicleide made me go back and look for some.

The first is an 1840 ophicleide by Leopold Uhlmann using his 1835 design. It uses double-piston valves (aka Vienna valves)

Image
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503954

The second is the only example I could find with rotary valves. This one is an 1844 design by Ferdinand Hell, but was built between 1855 and 1860.

Image
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/503960
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