TubeNet

I have been streaming through the archives, and have noticed much talk about the different sizes of shanks on tuba mouthpieces, particularly between american and euro.

My question is, how do you know which shank you really need? I have been playing on a mouthpiece that was one of a few prototypes back when Bill Rose was desiging mouthpieces for the St. Petersburg tubas (before he retired from teaching us), and don't really know the specs, especially the type of shank, just that I like it! I could venture a guess that it is an american shank, but thats all it is: a guess. Is there a way to measure the leadpipe, or the mouthpiece, or both to see what is going on?

I currently play on a Hirsbrunner HB2, which was made in Europe, so....should I investigate a different shank? I feel fine with my current setup, and the other brass members seem very happy with the job I am doing, so I am a little hesitant to start messing around with it. On the other hand, if I am fighting a battle that I am unaware of, and a better mouthpiece is out there waiting for me, I would want to know about it!

Thanks in advance,
Steve

sc_curtis wrote: I currently play on a Hirsbrunner HB2, which was made in Europe, so....should I investigate a different shank?

As I recall, both the Hirsbrunner and the St. Pete use the slightly larger European shank.

The difference isn't all that large. My Holton has a very large shank, and some American-shank mouthpieces bottom out in it. A Euro shank might not seat far enough into an instrument with an American shank receiver.

If you have about a quarter inch of the shank showing, your shank fits.

When I bought a Doug Elliott mouthpiece for my York Master, he shaved a shank slightly for a perfect fit. That sort of custom work is often required if you want to fine-tune the fit, but for me it was too subtle to have a noticeable effect.

I've never seen any mouthpiece insert the same amount into any two tubas, so I suspect the exact dimensions are somewhat elusive. In fact, there may even be a little overlap between American and Euro shank actual sizes in the population of tubas.

Some tubas are known for noticeably different shank sizes, like old Alexanders (which were large, often requiring an adaptor) and old Bessons (which were small--nearly bass trombone size).

Rick "whose mouthpieces for the Holton fit well enough on the YM, the Miraphone, the 14K, and even the B&S and Yamaha F tubas" Denney

This is actually starting to make sense to me now. This may or may not explain why I have not found another mouthpiece I like as much as the one I have.

I went and measured, and I do have close to a quarter-inch of shank showing when it is in (it may be closer to a third of an inch).

Maybe I should revisit trying out mouthpieces now that I know I need a euro-shank. Any recommendations?

Instrument: Hirsbrunner HB2
Application: Orchestral and Chamber

Are there any mouthpieces out there (available with an euro-shank) that are versatile enough to use them in both a large AND intimate setting? What are the thoughts about the new Baer mouthpiece? Would it be able to be sensitive as well as bombastic?

Thanks for the input Rick!

Steve

sc_curtis wrote:Are there any mouthpieces out there (available with an euro-shank) that are versatile enough to use them in both a large AND intimate setting?

I have to say that by and large that sort of versatility comes from you, not the mouthpiece. If I have a mouthpiece that is comfortable, that allows me to get a sound I like, and that makes it fairly easy to play what I want to play--that's the mouthpiece for me.

Personal preference is huge in this area. None of us can tell you what will fit your face, or what you think is comfortable. We can't hear you, so we can't even have an opinion about your sound.

All that said, mouthpieces fall into two basic categories: Funnel shape and cup shape. Funnel-shaped mouthpieces were first popularized by August Helleberg, so "Helleberg" is the name usually given to all examples of that style. A few companies actually have models called "Helleberg" or some variation thereof. The Conn Helleberg is the archetype of this category. They are thought to give a rounder sound with more depth.

Cup-shaped mouthpieces are more represented by the Vincent Bach line. The Bach 18 is probably the archetype of this category. They are thought to give a richer sound with more color.

Within those categories, you can get big and little cups (both in terms of diameter and volume), narrow and wide rims, and a whole host of rim shapes. And everyone of them has its own throat and backbore design. Some even vary by weight and material. The line between the two categories is not at all distinct, and it would appear to me that the mouthpieces that are most often used have some aspects of each. If there was a way to predict how these factors would behave with any given player, the proliferation would probably back down quite a bit.

I suspect the Rose design you are using is a larger version of the Conn Helleberg. I have a similar one that was also intended for the St. Pete, though I don't use it. I thought it a bit extreme in size and not as easy to play softly. I also have a Miraphone Rose Orchestra which is more moderately sized and intended for the Miraphone 186. It's also funnel-shaped like a Helleberg. It's an excellent mouthpiece that works well with the Miraphone.

If you have doubts about your mouthpiece, your next step is to consult your teacher about it. He can hear you and observe the fit, which nobody here can do.

Experimenting is easy. If there is one you want to try, wait for it to become available for sale in the For Sale folder and buy it. If it doesn't work for you, sell it the same way. You'll break even in the long run, making your experimentation very inexpensive.

Rick "who is happy with his mouthpieces but who bought another one last week just to try" Denney

Thanks for the clarification. I do understand that the player has more impact on sound than anything else. I was hoping that people that play on an HB2 could possibly post some of their experience with different mouthpieces and how these mouthpieces respond to different situations (solo, chamber, orchestral, etc...)

The Rose prototype that I play on now is a larger helleberg-type. As of right now, I am very comfortable with my current mouthpiece, but this may be simply because a few years ago I tried different mouthpieces and found that the one I already had was the best at that time. There are some issues that I have, and would like to see what other mouthpieces can do for me.

The suggestion of having my teacher help me is good, but I live much further from him than I used to. I could also seek advice of other area tuba players, but I am unfortunately in a situation where I am the only tuba player in town. There is not a lot of orchestrally-trained tuba players in all of Mexico for that matter. I can, though, have some of the other brass players in the orchestra help me with opinions (trombones in particular, mostly because they're easier to get along with).

Another issue for me is shipping. International shipping is much more costly, and down here, VERY unreliable. I think I will try to attend TMEA (convention for Texas music teachers) in February and see what kinds of goodies will be there. There is usually a fair amount of "stuff" to have fun with at it.

Thanks for all the advice Rick, you truly are a resident genius!

Steve

Hey Brian,

Thanks! I'm still getting used to things down here...

Good to hear from you!

I'll send you an email to catch up.

Steve