Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

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basslizard
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by basslizard »

cjk wrote:Kelly offers several models in the smaller Eb shank size:
http://www.kellymouthpieces.com/kmstain ... /index.asp" target="_blank" target="_blank
Given that this post is 5 years old, Kelly may have changed their sizing.... according to their website,

Receiver diameter sizes:

Small-shank Tuba .55
American-shank Tuba .58
European shank tuba .59
Kaiser shank tuba .61

They have large bore trombone mouthpieces listed as the same receiver diameter as the small-shank tuba, which would agree with my ability to use the same VB 6.5 on my bass trombone that I do on my Eb tuba, except that I just ordered and received one, and it doesn't fit very well at all. It's too long and sets my pitch too low for me to compensate for. I was trying to see if a small tuba mouthpiece would be a better option than a large trombone one. The answer is yes, and no.

I need to measure my receivers. Then I need to go ahead and order the correct shank size from Bloke. I already have a solo cup. I'm starting to prefer the other cup/shank combo I have for my Bb anyway.
Old Ugly - a Jupiter JCP -384 tuba
1916 Buescher Eb
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Donn
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by Donn »

basslizard wrote:They have large bore trombone mouthpieces listed as the same receiver diameter as the small-shank tuba, which would agree with my ability to use the same VB 6.5 on my bass trombone that I do on my Eb tuba, except that I just ordered and received one, and it doesn't fit very well at all. It's too long and sets my pitch too low for me to compensate for. I was trying to see if a small tuba mouthpiece would be a better option than a large trombone one. The answer is yes, and no.
You got a Kelly small shank? If it was too big, that matches my experience - as I mentioned, I had to sand it pretty thin.
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basslizard
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by basslizard »

Donn wrote:
You got a Kelly small shank? If it was too big, that matches my experience - as I mentioned, I had to sand it pretty thin.
You said that in another thread, and I took it to heart, but then decided your horn must have a smaller receiver than mine, and maybe it does. But the Kelly doesn't fit in the large bore/bass trombone that I have either, so I wonder if they make them too big? It's already pretty thin, but I'm going to try to sand it a bit as well.

I'm not as enamored with the sound - I think it's a little dull. I was trying to find something inexpensive to see if I was on the right track before spending serious money on a good mouthpiece, as well as whether or not I continue to rehab this old horn on my own, or find someone who actually knows what they're doing.
Old Ugly - a Jupiter JCP -384 tuba
1916 Buescher Eb
Elkhart Conn 62H Bass Trombone
American Standard 1929 Bb Baritone
Beaufort 1920's Euphonium
1960's Bundy oboe - family heirloom, has been played by three generations
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by iiipopes »

I just realized that my above two posts in this thread are almost exactly thirteen years apart. Tempus fugit!
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by Donn »

basslizard wrote:I'm not as enamored with the sound - I think it's a little dull. I was trying to find something inexpensive to see if I was on the right track before spending serious money on a good mouthpiece, as well as whether or not I continue to rehab this old horn on my own, or find someone who actually knows what they're doing.
I have the "X-SMALL", described as a "student" mouthpiece. I have not yet noticed that it has provided any educational experiences (other than "don't believe shank size descriptions", but I'm guessing that wasn't what the student is supposed to get out of it.) Anyway, it may be a little brighter than my Denis Wick 5, but maybe a little thinner in tone.

After reading TubaBeage's observations on shank tapers, on the preceding page in this thread ... it would be funny if they had indeed sized it to match a bass trombone mouthpiece, but a Brown & Sharpe taper like an old Conn 3B. Unfortunately, I didn't think to check that before I started sanding, but as best as I can make out at this time, it's more like a normal Morse taper.
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by TubaBeage »

Donn wrote:
basslizard wrote:I'm not as enamored with the sound - I think it's a little dull. I was trying to find something inexpensive to see if I was on the right track before spending serious money on a good mouthpiece, as well as whether or not I continue to rehab this old horn on my own, or find someone who actually knows what they're doing.
I have the "X-SMALL", described as a "student" mouthpiece. I have not yet noticed that it has provided any educational experiences (other than "don't believe shank size descriptions", but I'm guessing that wasn't what the student is supposed to get out of it.) Anyway, it may be a little brighter than my Denis Wick 5, but maybe a little thinner in tone.

After reading TubaBeage's observations on shank tapers, on the preceding page in this thread ... it would be funny if they had indeed sized it to match a bass trombone mouthpiece, but a Brown & Sharpe taper like an old Conn 3B. Unfortunately, I didn't think to check that before I started sanding, but as best as I can make out at this time, it's more like a normal Morse taper.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machine_taper" target="_blank

As you can see from the wiki page, no two morse tapers are the exact same taper (angle) and also they do not overlap in size as they are designed to be able fit inside each other.
The Brown and Sharpe tapers are similar as they vary, but a No.6 say, has a taper of 23.8:1 where as the Morse are all in the 19 - 20:1 range.
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by Donn »

Yes, and since for the most part it's brass on brass, optionally with some crud in there too, we're able to manage fine at "pretty close". My impression from reading here, is that receivers are conventionally presumed to be (some) Morse taper, but people who work on them after the factory, with the receiver installed at the end of a curved leadpipe, couldn't practically use a Morse taper reamer if they could get one, so they're happy if they can get something else that's close, like a Jarno #5.

I also have the impression that plastic mouthpieces may be the reference standard, perhaps because they're made in molds that retain their dimensions over time, where the metal mouthpieces are milled with equipment that changes as it wears down.
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Re: Tuba mouthpiece shank sizes, a description.

Post by Iainmac »

Thank you for a great explanation. Sorry for the delay in responding. Complements of the season!
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