constructional features of a Sousaphone

[tubamike]

I wonder how the different constructional features of a Sousaphone have an effect on sound, intonation, playability:
material: brass or fiber glass
bell: diameter
bore: large or standart
valves: short action or standart
finish: laquer or silver plating

thank you for your help

Michael

[imperialbari]

I have heard others play fiber-glass sousaphones in a way, which sounded good to me. But I only have old-fashioned heavy-weight metal Conns myself. Hardly a coincidence.

Some may find short action pistons being of benefit, but players of the largest and most prestigious orchestral tubas appear to get along quite well with normal/ long stroke pistons.

The current sousaphone model generally held in the highest esteem is the Conn 20K, which is also the only current instrument delivered with short stroke valves.

Actually the use of short stroke valves may be a bad idea for at least two reasons.

Some players complain the 20K having a flat 3rd partial, which is not found in older Conns with the same bore progression, but with long stroke valves. That puts the bore distortion of the short stroke valve block high up on the list of suspected reasons for the intonation problem.

Conn cannot meet the demands for new 20K's. Rumour has it, that only one elderly employed has the skills to make the short stroke valve block.

If Conn issued the 20K with a normal long stroke piston block it actually might generate 3 benefits:

the intonation would improve

the production numbers could be increased

the price could be lowered because the involved technology would be simpler.

Players of sousaphones with really large bell diameters (that is above 26", often 28", more rarely 30") report on their depth of sound.

But there also are problems associated with large sousaphone bells. The outer areas along the rim tend to take up an acoustical existence of their own. When the player stops playing the instrument continues with a ring or "after-glow". This was discussed in two related threads on the old TubeNet, but I cannot find them.

My preferred bell diameter is 24", but then that is what the 40K, 28K, and 26K all came with.

Some like smaller bore sousaphones, as they are less exhausting to march. I prefer the sound of the larger bore instruments. That is 0.730" for the BBb and 0.689" for the Eb.

In my opinion sousaphones should just be differently wrapped tubas, not cimbassos with large bell flares.

Klaus

[imperialbari]

After playing both fiberglass and brass sousaphones, I have come to one conclusion. I hate them both!

Hopefully you will get the chance to play one of the fine sousaphones sometime soon.

Joe Sellmansberger has posted favourably on the old Conn 14K and on the Conn 28K. JS also has written something to the effect that the best US made tubas could be considered rewrapped sousaphones.

The owner of TubeNet once posted something to the effect of: "The Conn 20K plays like a tuba, whereas the (another make) plays like a sousaphone".

I share a room with the Conns 26K, 28K, and 40K on a daily basis. No complaints about that ever heard from me.

Klaus

[Dan Schultz]

I have owned and played the following sousas: Conn 28K 4V Bb (now in Klaus's collection), Conn Pan American Eb, Reynolds Eb, Conn 36K (fiberglass BBb), York 4V Eb), Martin 'medium' Eb, Martin 'mammoth' BBb, and a King 4V Eb.

The fiberglass Conn was a dog. I sold it and threw in a brass bell that perked it up a little. Of the others only two qualify as good playing sousas... the 28K Eb and the Martin 'mammoth' BBb.

I played the Martin 'mammoth' at an outdoor community concert this afternoon. In my humble opinion... it is the absolute best sousa I have ever owned or played. To answer your questions, my Martin is described as follows:

- Brass is the best ... hands down.
- Bell diameter ... 26".
- The bore is .720".
- Valves are long action.
- Finish is satin silver with a gold bell.
- The piston diameter is 1.013".

Like Klaus's Conn 28K Eb, you are not going to find one of these beasts at your local used tuba store. The liklihood of locating a Conn 20K at a reasonable price is going to be much better. The 20K, although I have not owned one, would probably be my next choice.

[Shockwave]

The bell diameter has very little effect on the tone in front of the instrument, but to the player a larger bell makes the tone seem darker. I have a king sousaphone with a 28" bell and my friend has one that is nearly identical except it has a 24" bell and they sound the same to the audience.

Plastic sousaphones are much darker sounding than brass ones, and they seem to make just a little bit more deep bass, but the absence of cutting power means they are just completely covered up by the sound of the bass drum while marching. In a concert band I would use a plastic sousa, but they are really ill-designed for outdoor marching band use.

The bore size governs at what volume the tone begins to become more brilliant and blatty. Personally, I prefer a smaller bore size so that the sousaphone gains some bass trombone character to the sound and can be heard at a distance better. Low frequencies carry further than high frequencies, so if your audience is 200 feet ahead you need to have a slightly bright sounding tone up close. Smaller bore horns also require less air, which is good while marching. For gigs where there is only one sousaphone for a huge marching band I have a 3/4 York Bb sousa that makes the loudest, most cutting sound imaginable.

Lacquer or silver plate matters not, but I think silver looks much better, especially since the glare of the sun shows all the scratches in lacquer so well.

-Eric

[ContraDude]

Fiberglass just isn't a good building material for sousaphones. I haven't heard any fiberglass sousaphone (even the conn version) come anywhere near the tone quality of even a cheap brass sousaphone, much less a Conn 20k. I have marched alot of different sousaphones, but I like the Conn 20k alot. I think it sounds more like a loud tuba that a sousaphone. I think brass makes a much better medium than fiberglass. Everyone before me pretty much nailed everything else on the head.

C.P
Tubist/Contrabass Bugler

p.s. Don't ever mention anything about tone quality and fiberglass sousaphones in the same sentence unless the word bad or horrible is used in conjunction.

[Leland]

What still blows my mind is that, at the last marching band contest I attended, every -- and I mean EVERY -- sousaphone section that had fiberglass horns succeeded in projecting their sound all the way to the press box. On the other hand, in one top band, the brass-equipped sousie section (they looked like 20K's from thirty yards away) almost wasn't worth having on the field because they were so quiet.

My guess is that the players on the fiberglass horns felt that they just weren't projecting well, so they really blew their stones off (been there, done that, know how it feels.. lol). And, thus, they were actually loud enough.

I would think that it's possible to build a good-playing sousaphone out of fiberglass. But, I'll bet that even instrument designers have their prejudices, and don't put any effort into the design & prototype stages for fiberglass horns.