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It seems to make more sense to ask about horn preference for a specific application....so here it goes:

What key tuba to you fiind works best for quintet?

What specific horn do you use most?

I forgot to mention that I have exclusively used a YCB-621 as my quintet horn, for the last 14 years, but am now trying out my HB-2, because I like the tone quality.

I have always thought that the 621 was an ideal choice for quintet, as it can play big, but is often in perfect balance with the other 4 members of the group. I find that I have to be more careful with the HB-2, it can easily drown out the other members.

If there is a better all-around horn than the Mirafone 186, I have yet to find it. I play it in quintet, brass ensemble and larger concert bands and have yet to be too soft or too loud for the group (at least due to the tuba!)

Z-Tuba Dude wrote:It seems to make more sense to ask about horn preference for a specific application....so here it goes:

What key tuba to you fiind works best for quintet?

What specific horn do you use most?

Lately, I've been playing the B&S Symphonie F, but that is mostly to lock in the characteristic of that instrument in my brain. I may well go back to the 621 F tuba at some point for quintet. With the 621, I can be a bass trombone for baroque stuff and a string bass for jazz and swing. The B&S has more character in the sound, but going trombone-like on the B&S might get somebody hurt.

Quintet music is a good challenge for F tuba. The music often goes low enough to require a solid low register, and not all F tubas make that easy. But I have an easier time making the low register work than I do getting a reliable and unforced sound at or above the staff on a BBb. Secure upper register playing on my Miraphone often overpowers the rest of the ensemble. Also, the Willson F might be the ultimate quintet F tuba, but it was far out of my price range, and didn't have as much of the characteristic F-tuba sound that I was looking for.

Of course, it depends on the quintet, too.

If I played C or Eb, I might prefer one of those. But "I don't bloody have one, do I?"(1) I hear lots of raves about Miraphone 184's in quintet applications, but every quintet I've heard that had a tuba player using a 184 had a weak tuba sound. My sample is not representative, though.

Rick "still struggling a bit with the fifth valve on the B&S" Denney

For me, hands down it is the Miraphone 184 CC. I've tried a number of different instruments in quintet and the 184 is the most comfortable fit I've found.

My opinion for what it's worth...

I always use my B&S Symphonie F (pre-PT) with Triton. I've only pulled my Alex CC out a couple of times with the group, and only if we're playing larger ensemble works. The lightness of the german F tuba sound seems to blend much better with small ensembles. Yes, the low register is a bitch, but you learn to deal with it. I've recently re-configured my low fingerings, pushing the 5th in to a pure whole step (basically putting the horn in Eb), and going from there. REALLY opened up the low register; especially low A, Ab & G.

Jobey Wilson wrote:I've recently re-configured my low fingerings, pushing the 5th in to a pure whole step (basically putting the horn in Eb), and going from there. REALLY opened up the low register; especially low A, Ab & G.

Okay, now you have my attention.

But I can't make what you say work in my head. The typical long-whole-step fifth does exactly what you suggest--it puts the horn in Eb, starting with an in-tune low Bb, fingered 4-5. You'd play a low Bb on an Eb tuba using only 4.

With 5 pushed in to be just another 1, Bb would be sharp with 4-5. Do you play it 2-4-5? That would be the same as 1-2-4, and it seems like it would be flat.

What fingerings are you using with the fifth tuned to be just like the first valve?

Rick "who thinks the B&S designers must have had something in mind when they made the tubing so short" Denney

Rick,
Good point! I used to have the 5th out a little further where I could play Bb in tune 4/5, but here's my new scheme:

Tune 5th so Eb below staff is locked in tune:
D- 2/5 or 3...both work nicely
Db- 1/5 (pull 1st slide) or 2/3
C- 3/5 is AWESOME!
B- 2/3/5..Bam!
Bb- 1/2/4 is best sound and intonation...locks very nicely, 4/5 is a bit shaky on my tuba.
A- 1/4/5 AWESOME!
Ab- 3/4/5 AWESOME!
G- 1/3/4/5 & in on 1st slide...ROCKS!
Gb- Full claw and pull 1st

My low register on my F has opened up incredibly the last few weeks using these fingerings, though it is frustrating to get used to (especially A & Ab)...but it's WELL WORTH IT!!
I just had a thumb lever put on my Alex CC (4 valves) that kicks out my main tuning slide when needed (amazing, but EXPENSIVE!...done by Jim Becker at Osmun Music, Arlington, MA), so that has helped the coordination issues immensely.

Miraphone 183-4 (Eb)

Jobey: D- 2/5 or 3...both work nicely

yup, 3 by itself is what has worked for me

Jobey: C- 3/5 is AWESOME!

About the same as 1-3, and with 5 being a hair flatter because that's what works on that low Eb, then I'm buying it.

Jobey: B- 2/3/5..Bam!

or 2-4?

Jobey: Bb- 1/2/4 is best sound and intonation...locks very nicely, 4/5 is a bit shaky on my tuba.

Same for me, because I can't get 5 pulled out enough to make it really lock in. I figured 1-2-4 should be flat, and if it isn't, I'm not playing correctly. That it works for you is most reassuring.

A- 1/4/5 AWESOME!

2-3-4 was always my favorite for the Yamaha, but it's sharp on the B&S.

Jobey: Ab- 3/4/5 AWESOME!

That's what I do on the Yamaha, too.

Jobey: G- 1/3/4/5 & in on 1st slide...ROCKS!

I was using 2-3-4-5 with 5 pulled out more, and hating it.

My hand is so used to the Yamaha that retraining this notes is going to be a mess, and even more interesting will be trying to switch back and forth to the Yamaha. I'm hoping the left-handed 5th will keep things unique enough so my fingers don't get confused.

Rick "printing this out" Denney

It depends on the type of quintet.

Are you using cornets and euphonium in the upper parts? Then I'd prefer a CC or BBb to match the darker sound a bit better.

If trumpets and trombone, an F, Eb or bass trombone would be just the thing.

Joe Sellmansberger wrote: Therefore, on a "blind" quintet church read-it/play-it gig, the B.A.T. always stays at home.

Joe (at the expense of cross-topic posting), you obviously need a tuba in D...

For years, I used a CC and 3/4 Besson Eb in quintet. Though not very portable, this setup allowed me a high degree of flexibility. When I started my masters degree, I began playing F tuba for the first time. For some reason, I no longer could make the CC tuba work in quintet (partially because I bought a BAT ). The F tuba just kind of "took over" my playing in this regard. Now, I have a pretty great Miraphone 181 6 valve F tuba, so flexibility is not as much of an issue as my old method. But, I have always believed that my choice of tuba, if I were a full time quintet player, would be an Eb. For some reason, I can no longer make Eb work as well in a chamber setting as the F tuba. It's not range or comfort issue for me. I'm beginning to suspect its a tone color issue. Of course, the musicians have changed around me, but I feel its my taste as well. Others I have heard on Eb in quintet, including my teacher, sound great. I just can't make it "work" as well. I'm Eb handicapped!
Just my opinion for what its worth.

***

EEb because of the ease of playing the higher parts and the fingering is generaly eaiser. Being a smaller horn the sound blends better. I use a Willson 3400.

I've played a MW 2155, a Conn 2J, and a B&S F in quintet. Out of these I think the 2J is the best all-around quintet horn because it's not an overpowering CC like the 2155, but it's also got a much stronger low range than the F. I would never use it in an orchestra or band, but for quintet, it's a very practical horn.

I am glad I asked! Some very interesting results!

I use a tiny little weril 3/4 CC horn. It's confortable and there is (surprisingly enough in my horn) no real intonation problems I have hit yet (that one time with the pt-88 mega mouthpiece doesn't count).

B&S Symphonie model F (easier to play in tune in the mid/upper registers but more challenging in the low register than a PT-10/15). I've dealt w/the aforementioned tuning challenges in the low register (see posts by Jobey and Rick D) by having the 5th v slide extended (Weril 3/4 tubing works great) and having a kicker added to the 5th v slide. Playing the F tuba in quintet has forced me to work on my F low chops, as well as overall dexterity/intonation on the horn. The payback is the timbre and ability to blend, esp on lighter works. The best sounding horn for most quintets in most instances, in my opinion? Probably an Eb or 3/4 CC.[/i]

When I was discussing this topic with my teacher last year, we went to his CD shelf. We began to look at all of his brass quintet CDs and found that most tuba players in brass quintets play CC tubas. Canadian Brass, Empire Brass (w/ Pilafian). Just to name two that I remember off the top of my head. With this on my mind I chose to play my CC tuba in my quintet and I`m glad I did. And its a Willson, not very small, but I made it work.