TubeNet

From the Village Voice this week....
http://www.villagevoice.com/music/0542, ... 19,22.html
sound samples at: http://www.akwid.com/producciones.htm

I've had a few conversations about the increased use of tuba by rap artists recently. Is anyone out there playing these sort of gigs? Or has anyone been to any of these shows?


Banda Rappers for President
Urban regional music makes tubas go hip-hop, gives rowdy voice to Mexican L.A.
by Elijah Wald
October 14th, 2005 6:52 PM

The few attempts to fuse country and rap have been novelties, amusing at best, if not ridiculous. But in Los Angeles an equally odd fusion produced an innovative, tough new style that sounds completely natural.

Banda rap, a/k/a "urban regional," mixes hip-hop attitude and production with the melodies and instrumentation of Mexican ranchera: accordions, mariachi guitars, nasal country singers, and above all, the thumping brass bands of the Pacific coast. Too bad Nashville never discovered the tuba.

This gangsta ranchera is the soundtrack of the new L.A., a city where Mexicans are the majority and Anglo culture is on the defensive. One recent hit, Jae-P's "Ni de Aquá Ni de Alla," lays it all out: "I'm not from here, and I'm not from there/But here is where I like to be/And here I'm gonna stay." Rapped in fast Spanish over a sampled accordion riff, it could be the anthem for millions of kids whose roots are in Mexico but whose future is in the U.S. While the Minutemen post vigilante patrols, Jae-P's lyric bursts with optimism: "I don't care what they say or think of me/My kid will be president of this ****' country." And it's sounding truer every day. As Antonio Villaraigosa was sworn in as the city's first Mexican mayor in 130 years, people were already discussing his presidential prospects.

The new sound exploded in 2003 with two albums, a groundbreaking anthology entitled Jesse y Jorge Morales Presentan Z Banda Rap and Akwid's Proyecto Akwid. The Morales brothers are corrido singers, followers of the frequently name-checked Chalino Sánchez, who used the traditional ballad form to chronicle the violence and heroism of the cross-border drug trade. Their anthology showcased other local artists, like Dyablo and Locura Terminal, but was barely heard outside L.A.

Proyecto Akwid, by contrast, became the genre's runaway success, quickly earning Latin platinum status and a Grammy nomination. Its first single, "No Hay Manera," made the case with its opening lines: "There's no way you can stop this/ Like a corrido/Akwid has returned with a new sound." The beats backed up the boast. The tuba burped along like a nimble elephant, while trumpets and valve trombones punched under hard-edged, tag-team rapping, then blared to introduce a lilting ranchera chorus. Other songs effortlessly fused Mexican regional traditions and the street sound of South Central.

Akwid are Sergio and Francisco Gomez, brothers born in the tiny Michoacán town of Jiquilpan but raised in South Central. Their shaved heads, football jerseys, heavy physiques, and slang-heavy Spanish would not turn heads on any L.A. barrio street corner, and they grew up listening to equal doses of Chalino and Snoop Dogg, as well as the older folks' romantic ballads and r&b oldies. Their songs mix all of this with rowdy humor and the greatest tubas in hip-hop, reaching a high point on their second album, KOMP 104.9 Radio Compa, and its romping, pounding lead single, "Jamás Imaginé."

Three years on, banda rap is confronting Puerto Rican reggaetón and struggling to top its early successes. Akwid's new Los Aguacates de Jiquilpan is an obvious attempt at palette broadening. They have kept their jokey attitude, with a fairy-tale narration satirizing their small-town background, but the roots ranchera feel is submerged in uptown sounds: synth keyboard, string sections, and samples of George Clinton and jazz piano. The beats are still distinctive but lack the polka-derived thump that made their greatest tracks so bizarrely compelling.

Meanwhile, other urban-regional outfits are mixing in Caribbean beats or falling back on pop hip-hop. It remains to be seen if banda rap is truly the sound of a Mexican reconquest, or just a wild moment in an evolving scene. But damn, those tubas are fine.

Akwid play S.O.B.'s October 20.

A style of NEW music that offers a chance for a tuba player to get a paying gig and have fun. GO FOR IT!!!!!!! As close as I ever got to playing my horn with a rock band was one of the Moody Blues concerts.
Good Luck, Phil

SJSUW wrote: Why?

Personally, I think that's beautiful. It's fusion, it's evolution, and frankly, it's the future.

With this I must agree. I also must admit 95% of rap is garbage. The 5% that is good is poetic, clever, and lyricly better that 100% of pop music today.

I'm sick of everyone bashing rap. Rap is just as respectable as rock, blues or jazz in my opinion. Take Kanye West for intance he mixes old school 70's style tracks with lyrics about how much he loves his mom, or about his grandma not getting treated right in the hospital b/c she's poor and black. On the opposite end of the spectrum you have guys like 50 Cent who I like just as much as Kanye. I know he's all about money, hoes and rims but I love his music. The beats are intriging (I think I spelled that wrong), the chords are awesome and fit the lyrics so well. I love every type of music ranging from Jazz, Hip-Hop, Rock to Classical. By simply writing off rap as a bunch of guys talking about money and cars shows how ignorant you really are. There are plenty of rappers like Kanye and Common who don't rap about those things and have a depper meaning and are trying to make MUSIC for the sake of music. They don't make tracks just to sell them.

Who says that music needs many chord changes to be labeled as "relevant" or "good"? Whatever... as has been said for decades, "If it sounds good, it is good."

If you don't like it, don't listen to it, and don't buy the albums. Get over it.

ANYWAY....

I'm kinda surprised that this rap+tuba thing didn't come out of New Orleans-style street bands first. But, it does seem like a logical extension of the stuff I've been seeing on Univision.

bloke wrote: Just because 1%-3% or so of "rap" has presentable lyrics, that 1%-3% still has to past the "art" test. So far, 100% of what I've been exposed to (at best) reminds me musically of the visual art that I've seen on display in elementary and middle schools during open house...perhaps some potential...???, but...

That is spot on bloke....because the best stuff never...and I mean NEVER gets played on the radio.

Okay...I admitted that not all rap is good. I grew up in an environment were rap was what you listened to. I actually never really listened to rap on a regular basis until the past year or so (and I'm 19 years old). What do you mean by "presentable" lyrics...I know of a song written in the 20's called "Makin' Whoopee" by Louis Armstrong, that was considered obscene but now it's a classic. Yeah, most rap isn't good but people who listen to rap realize that it's not good and they don't buy the albums...the artists who try to do something different and try to make music are the ones who are growing in popularity. Kanye West was nominated for Album of the Year (in the Grammy's) for gosh sakes. Now, back to the topic of tuba w/ rap...look at what the Youngblood Brass Band has done. They mix hip-hop w/ brass and especially the tuba and they have a tremendous following. Nat McIntosh has done a great thing here even though he's no longer part of the group.

and I mean NEVER gets played on the radio.

Truer words were never spoken. Which means you gotta go buy it and play it yourself. Now put on some Bangles, Gogos, Bananarama, and **Voice of the Beehive** and clean that rap mess out of your ears.

Here's a rap band I really like. http://www.theroots.com/ As far as poetry, it's all there, and the instrumental guys have credits in the working world as well. I really like their album "The tipping point" and you can here samples on their site. Peace. ASG

There is to be no discussing music on a music site, it's too controversial...

ANYWAYS... I have to say that different types of music, rap included, have to be taken for what they are. They might be "simpler" in terms of rhythm or harmonic structure, but can anyone here play a drum beat as well as ?uestlove from the Roots, or make beats as catchy as some of these people? If you can, then that's great, because it's not as easy as it looks.

As for tuba in rap (or any other types of pop music), I think it's great that they're experimenting, and I think that it can bring new textures to the music, but I don't think it will go very far. You're trying to make an instrument do something it's not intended for. Electric bass, synth bass or even upright bass are much better suited for this. I love euphonium, and I love listening to euphonium music, but I would not like my horn section to have euphonium in it because it doesn't have the bite that a trumpet and trombone have.

Ryan "who doesn't necessarily listen to a lot of rap and hip hop although he respects it for what it is, just as he doesn't listen to many experimental composers even though he respects what they do."

[quote]As for tuba in rap (or any other types of pop music), I think it's great that they're experimenting, and I think that it can bring new textures to the music, but I don't think it will go very far. You're trying to make an instrument do something it's not intended for.[/quote]

Why not? In my high school marching band we played a lot of rap music in the stands (not on the field). I thought that the sousaphone added a really cool texture to the music. The Youngblood Brass Band play a lot of rap and they use a sousa and it sounds great. I think the tuba is as versitile as the trombone or trumpet in terms of genres it can be used in.

Well it's obviously preference, but in terms of what the majority of people are looking for in a bass line for a pop/rap/hip hop song, a tuba doesn't deliver the sound as well. I've heard the Youngblood Brass Band and I think they sound great too, especially the sousa player...but keep in mind that he is trying to emulate a bass. He's doing crazy things to get the sound that he is, and it's not a "traditional" sousaphone sound.

I think a lot of people here are missing the point of Jason's original post...

THE TUBA IS BEING USED FOR SOMETHING OTHER THAN IT'S TRADITIONAL, IDIOMATIC PURPOSES!!!

Isn't this what we've all been wanting for years; to be used, and eventually accepted and desired, outside of the normal circles we run in?

Keep in mind that this is urban hip-hop from a Latino background of Banda Ranchera music. A lot of you have heard Mexican radio stations in LA and elsewhere playing music from Mexican bandas that have really active and fun tuba parts. These parts aren't written, they are usually improvised or otherwise "just played" by the tuba player. Anyway...the tuba is VERY prominent in this kind of music. The tuba is to Banda what the Fender jazz bass was to Motown.

Motown was the backdrop for rap when it first started back in the late 70's; the bass was the driving force. Anything that had a great bass groove would be used as the main loop. So...it only makes sense that when Latinos in LA fuse their native banda with hip-hop, that the tuba is going to be the main instrument. If you are a tuba fan...this is FANTASTIC!!!

Now, as for the artistic merit of rap itself...

Chuck D of Public Enemy (someone here has the Public Enemy logo as their avatar...who is that?) said, "Rap is not music. It is rap over top of the music." Back in New York City where it started, DJ's at clubs would be playing their usual mix of funk and Motown dance music. Then, there started a trend where the DJ would play just a loop of a song, a groove, and an MC (rapper) would get on the mic and start rapping about whatever was going on. The topics would range anywhere from girls, to how it sucked living in the ghetto, to cars, to politics...whatever!

The real artistic side of rap comes from the MC's lyrical style....how he uses words, vocabulary, rhyming skills, rhythmic skills, attitude, general style and the message itself. Things like intelligence and relevance can really sharpen how good a rapper is. Then you've got your tag-team acts like Run DMC and Public Enemy with Chuck D and Flavor Flav that adds another approach, where each guy complements the other and forms a solid whole. Some of the better lyricists are Del the Funkee Homosapien, KRS-One, Jeru the Damaja, Snoop Dogg (one of the best freestylers, hands-down) and Chuck D.

As for the musical side...it has evolved and is still evolving. Used to be, all you needed was a repeated loop and a backbeat and that was enough. Rapper's Delight by Sugar Hill Gang was the epitome of this. People started finding it too repetitive, so then things started getting more complex. Producers like Hank Shocklee and Prince Paul started using lots and lots of samples on single songs. This is where they started getting really quite creative. They would lay down a backbeat, usually from a drum machine, then they would layer on a ton of stuff...a guitar riff here, a horn hit there; squawks and shouts; different bass licks...they would do this until you had this sonic wall and the rappers would go ahead and do their thing over top of it. Check out albums like Public Enemy's "It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back" or De La Soul's "Three Feet High and Rising" or Beastie Boys' "Paul's Boutique" for the best examples of this type of approach. Believe me...it's anything but simple to put this type of stuff together.

Then there was the whole dispute over sampling and copyright laws, so producers had to start scaling back over how much sampled material they used (or shell out a ton of money for licensing fees). Less was more. There also was more of a trend to using live instruments or coming up with an original groove for the music. Things are still evolving...we'll see what happens next.

So, what's my point in all this? To just say that all rap is too simple to be worth listening to is not a very well-informed argument. After all...the things they are rapping about may not come from your own experience. There are messages there. If you don't like it...ok, that's fine. But listen and see if you can hear where they're coming from, don't just dismiss it as being sub-music. Sure, there's a lot of blowhard tunes that only talk about money, ho's and other knuckle-head, shallow stuff. But tell me this...what kind of music DOESN'T have these guys??

And as for being too simple...some of the best songs in the world are the simplest. Simple, honest and to the point...doesn't mean you can't enjoy it. Would you refuse to eat a good cheeseburger because it's too simple? Simplicity does not necessarily degrade artistic integrity.

There's two types of music in this world..."good" and "bad."

Steve Oberheu wrote: Chuck D of Public Enemy (someone here has the Public Enemy logo as their avatar...who is that?)

That would be me. I changed it to that the other day because of this thread

DP wrote:..and yet would parrot some liberal's rejection of Wagner's music for all sorts of far more obtuse reasons.

Hey look, it got to the third page before it turned political....

bloke wrote: I wouldn't reject 100% of anything, though I would describe this particular genre, alternatively, as "under the bottom of music". The poetry of rap - though totally different and delivered by totally different characters with totally different perspectives - generally reminds me of the poetry of the 1960's (along with books such as Jonathan Livingston Seagull, et al)...

This view of rap as being "under the bottom of music" as you say...I just don't see the point in it. It is an emerging art form, but it is indeed an art form. To illustrate my point, I refer to a letter from Herbert L. Clarke to Mr. Elden Benge on Jan. 15, 1921. Mr. Clarke, one of the most famous cornet soloists in history wrote:

"My dear Mr. Benge--replying to yours of the 19th just received, would not advise you to change from Cornet to Trumpet, as the latter instrument is only a foreign fad for the time present, and is only used properly in large orchestras of 60 or more, for dynamic effects, and was never intended as a solo instrument.
I never heard of a real soloist playing before the public on a trumpet. One cannot play a decent song even, properly, on it, and it has sprung up in the last few years like "jaz" music, which is the nearest Hell, or the Devil, in music. It polutes the art of music."

Those were the exact words Mr. Clarke wrote...I even included the bad spelling and punctuation. I think you can safely say that he was a bit wrong about the trumpet AND jazz. Both survived and proved over many years that they were relevant and innovative.

Anyway...it's the attitude of trying to discredit another art form, simply because the newer art form is not familiar or "proper music," that I take issue with. I simply do not agree with stances taken in this manner. If you don't get it or don't like it is one thing, and that's each person's prerogative...to each his own. But to look down on it and say it's not valid...I don't buy it. If people are able to musically communicate feeling through it, and other people receive it as such, it's an art form as valid as any other.

bloke wrote: Right on, Steve. I "get it" now. All art is proper. To each his own. I'm buyin' it. We're all just wanting to communicate our valid feelings.

Ummm.....uhhhh......thanks?!?!

Didn't really need the sarcasm...but whatever. It's your world, dude. You're entitled to think whatever you like...hope you at least enjoyed the contrasting opinion I had. Have a good one!

I'm gonna go crawl back under the music from which I came.....

I don't think you guys ARE getting it...buy discrediting an entire genre based soley on the negative aspects of that genre you are showing how truley ignorant you are. Rock and Roll was considered taboo in the 50's and 60's. Jazz used to be taboo as well. Heck, many classical composers were concidered womanizers and all around bad people. You see where I'm going? You cannot simply put down an enitre musical genre based only on the bad things. There are a lot of good things in rap that don't get talked about...i.e. politics, racisim, how money isn't all that...ect.

Perhaps someday if I acquire the intellect of a pre-25-year-old, an angry thug, or a sensitive coastal state resident / college professor I'll "get it".

bloke "One can only hope for the gift of a 'vision of enlightenment' "

Okay I'll give you that I'm not quite 25 yet (I'm 19)...but I'm not an angry thug (or a thug at that, I also have a 156 i.q.) I just think that putting down rap and those who enjoy it is ignorant...you're never too old to expand your horizons

Arkietuba wrote:Okay I'll give you that I'm not quite 25 yet (I'm 19)...

Don't sweat it -- I'm just 34, hardly an angry thug, and I "get it" -- although I miss the days just prior to gangsta rap.