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In Australian orchestras the Principal Trombone is the Section Leader of the trombones, and if you asked them they would say that "their section" includes the tuba too. If you ask the tuba players most of us regard ourselves as "independant" principals (a section of 1 just like the harp)

I know the issue doesn't make any difference to the way we play, and in fact makes no difference at all for 99% of the time, but I'd like to know how this is regarded in US and hopefully also European orchestras.

Regards,

we are principal tubists when it comes time for pay scales.we are part of the trombone,bass,or horn section in reality...

"TUBA IST EINE GRUPPE ALLEIN" ("tuba is a group alone[apart]") - HANS-JOACHIM SORDEL, Tuba, formerly Nuremberg Philharmonic, Munich Radio Orchestra

Hey. The trombones never stuck up for Tubby!

They always let things slide

This is absolutley imperative:

bloke wrote: 4/ Leave as soon as the engagement ceases without hanging around to gossip or brown-nose.

Also, I may add to Bloke's list:

5/Never ask a question during rehearsals and never attract attention to yourself. Figure out your problems on your own time. You never want to force the conductor to look that far down into the score. It has been my observation that most orchestra musicians that get into trouble with a conductor, do so by doing it to themselves.

-Matt Good

bloke wrote:1/ Be on time.
2/ Don't complain.
3/ Play your part with the goal of having the music director never say the word "tuba" unless it is preceded by the words "great" or "fantastic".
4/ Leave as soon as the engagement ceases without hanging around to gossip or brown-nose.

bloke "section-schmection"

I would add to that:
6/ Don't engage in "politics" or discussions about it. No one cares how good you think you are.
7/ Play your part and don't nose into the part of others unless invited and when in doubt, see Number 3.
8/ Don't try to compete with the trombones in volume. (you can't win a pissing contest with a @@@@@ )
9/ Have a good working relationship with the bass trombone.

MikeMason wrote:we are principal tubists when it comes time for pay scales.we are part of the trombone,bass,or horn section in reality...

So in US orchestras the Principal Tuba is generally on the same pay scale as Principal Trombone? In Australian orchestras instruments like Timpani, Harp, Tuba, Bass Trombone, 3rd Horn, ContraBasoon, Bass Clarinet, Cor Anglais, Piccolo are all Principal players and on the same scale, along with the Associate Principal players in sections that have them.

There is a pay scale above that for Principal Players who are also Section Leaders, which I guess is defined as a Principal of a Section that has Tutti players in it: Percussion, Trombone, Trumpet, Horn, each of the WW and String Principals. Above that there is the Concertmaster and Associate Concertmaster who are usually on contract.

I'm pleased to have the independance of the Tuba confirmed

tubaman5150 wrote:

bloke wrote:1/ Be on time.
2/ Don't complain.
3/ Play your part with the goal of having the music director never say the word "tuba" unless it is preceded by the words "great" or "fantastic".
4/ Leave as soon as the engagement ceases without hanging around to gossip or brown-nose.

I would add to that:
6/ Don't engage in "politics" or discussions about it. No one cares how good you think you are.
7/ Play your part and don't nose into the part of others unless invited and when in doubt, see Number 3.
8/ Don't try to compete with the trombones in volume. (you can't win a pissing contest with a @@@@@ )
9/ Have a good working relationship with the bass trombone.

10. But if, on the very rare instance, you DO miss a note, look over at the trombone section like you can't believe one of THEM just played it...

I find #3, #9, and #10 to always be my #1 #2 & #3

3/ Play your part with the goal of having the music director never say the word "tuba" unless it is preceded by the words "great","fantastic" or very good Mr. (tuba).

9/ Have a good working relationship with the bass trombone.

10. But if, on the very rare instance, you DO miss a note, look over at the trombone section like you can't believe one of THEM just played it... (add a tilting head with quizzical eyebrow raise for effect)

I like to think of the trombones as part of the tuba section.

There are conductors who will say "trombones play the four measures at section G" when they really mean trombones and tuba. It's good to learn this before your first rehearsal with those conductors.

Mark wrote:There are conductors who will say "trombones play the four measures at section G" when they really mean trombones and tuba. It's good to learn this before your first rehearsal with those conductors.

Sounds like a good example of "conductors' English" ...

When I first got my job, some of my colleagues told me about "Rule #1", and then went on to give me the rest of the list of rules.

Here they are:

Rule #1: Never talk to the conductor.

Rule #2: Never talk to the conductor.

Rule #3: If you absolutely HAVE to talk to the conductor, talk about HIM!


Gotta go!