TubeNet

What are the lightest (in weight) tubas that exist in BBb, CC, Eb and F?
What is the lightest tuba that could conceivably be built? Piston or Rotaries? 3-valve 3/4 F? Fiberglass? Tornister?

Is this an intellectual exercise, or a bad back problem?

As I read the brass instruments’ history from testing, playing, and owning a fairly large number of brass instruments, the lightest tubas are out of the German-Czech tradition.

They were made so on purpose:

Lightweight gives a very fast response, if the acoustical proportions are right. The flip side of the coin is a tendency to having the sound breaking up at fairly low dynamics.

The remedy was the mounting of a bell garland (Kranz) and of extended bow guards. The metal of the bell flare and of the outer perimeters of the larger bows was hammered down to a very thin gauge due to the traditional production processes.

As the Central European military bands often did very long marches and parades, the weight was also kept down by limiting the number of valves to three.

I have tried several such tubas and only found one model really acceptable: the 5 or 6 valve B&S Symphonie.

But even that one was too "elegant" for my tuba concept. All of my 6 Eb’s and BBb’s are British or American, even if the York Master BBb actually is made in Germany after an American design concept.

If the implied question is: What do I buy for my young tuba students, my answer would be: the small Yamahas, the Werils, or the small Jupiters. Not ideal artistic tools, but manageable for youngsters. Maybe the Lidl BBb would be relevant also.

If you want a lightweight tuba for your own artistic use, there are several German small workshops. Personally I probably would start looking for at good sample from B&S.

Klaus

bloke wrote:My Gronitz PCK weighs less than my 6V B&S F.

Then you have looked into one of the right places.

Yet I think we could agree on, that looking for an old style B&S F tuba is no bad idea, if one is out for "elegancy".

Klaus

iiipopes wrote:Is this an intellectual exercise, or a bad back problem?

Both, and I would like to know the lightest tubas in actual fact, be they Werils or 1930 ebay iron curtain stovepipe.
Please reminisce about the lightest tubas you have seen, regardless of whether they played good, can be used by a 12 year old, or can be purchased in the EU.

I would think that these are probably among the lightest, if not the lightest:

http://www.musik-glassl.de/news.html

These seem to weigh between about 12 and 17 pounds if I'm reading this right. I have a Boston Musical Instrument Manufactory Eb bombardon (bass tuba) from about 1880 that weighs about 15 pounds, but I don't think that's what you were asking.

I remember an early 1900's BBb Cerveny which was owned by one of the tubists who played Hollywood soundtracks in the '30's. The tuba was then sold to the tubist with the American Symphony and, later, to one of his students.

It was a four valve Kaiser and light as a feather. I'll bet it weighed less than 20 pounds. It dented easily.

As mentioned above, the response was immediate but did not distort when played loudly. It is the BAT I compare all large tubas to.

Mr. Jacobs' York played similarly but so different it would be silly to compare.

I believe Chuck Dallenbach's tiny Yamaha with the carbon fiber bell he was using in the Canadian Brass was something like twelve pounds. . . and he certainly got a good sound out of it. . .

--T. J.

hey bloke,you talking about pedal e on f tuba or e below the staff? which piece was this?

I don't list this as a recommendation or an Un-recommendation, just as info. I have this tuba.

http://tinyurl.com/9g6y9

It weighs about 16 pounds, 32 pounds with case; plays OK; dents real easily.

My 1970's Mirafone 186 BBb weighs in at about 15 lbs. Nice big, focussed sound and won't make my back much worse than it already is!

The lightest tuba I ever found was in a music store in Vladivostok,Siberia.
There were two,with no dents,silver brass,three valve,rotary Eb tubas and they looked new. There were no names or numbers on them so I assumed they were Soviet Army issue. They had no valve oil in the store so I could only bugle with them. The price was 10,000 Rubles ($10 U.S.).
I bought one and the store manager asked my wife if I was making a joke and my wife hastened to assure him that I had played tuba in college and that I had always wanted one of my own.
I lugged it with no case around Russia,Alaska,Seattle and finally home. The horn dented so easily and would not blatt-no matter how hard I blew.The tone was blah and the valves were slow and clanky. Screws would fall out of the valves when I gigged with it and I would be forced to finish a song with what ever two valves I had left and then get down on the floor and find the darn screws. I cut and glued wine bottle corks in for stoppers.
The 1940 King Efer I replaced it with weighed three times as much and plays fine,fine,fine.

Orsi (Italian) Eb, 3 top action piston valves, small bore (and receiver), weighs about 11 pounds. Really sounds pretty nice, but small.

Amati F helicon (like Cerveny) is much heavier at 17 pounds, a bigger tuba with 4 valves, but it's a lot easier to play it while standing up than a top action tuba.

The lightest tubas I have ever encountered are owned by the "Heritage Military Music Society" of Watertown, Wisconsin. They own one of the largest (some 180 instruments) collections of pre-1865 brass instruments in the country, and they are played regularly and presented to the public through the efforts of the "First Brigade Band" (see: www.1stbrigadeband.org), a Civil War reenactment band that recreates the "First Brigade Band" of Brodhead, Wisconsin that accompanied Gen. Sherman during his "march to the sea" in the latter part if the Civil War (or "War Between the States" if you live south of the Mason-Dixon line). Some of these instruments weigh as little as 8 pounds (for an Eb tuba!) and play remarkably well for instruments produced so close to the actual "birthdate" of the tuba. Their website has a lot of great pictures, and is worth a visit for anyone interested in "tuba history". I might add that the band normally rehearses Fri. eves, and visiting musicians are welcome to "sit in" and play on one of the band's vintage instruments. It's quite an experience to play in a band of all "period" brass instruments. Though the older horns sometimes have intonation problems that are "squared" when compared to modern horns, they often have REMARKABLE "response" as well as a surprisingly "sweet" and mellow sound that surpasses horns manufactured today. In addition they often produce a volume of sound that seems to defie their size. Certainly worth a "side trip" to visit if you're passing through or vacationing in Wisconsin. In addition, the band offers historical programs and concerts at an obscenely low price for entertainment of this quality and nature, I've often wondered why they haven't been "featured" at any of the TUBA workshops and symposiums over the years. A 30-40 piece band composed nearly entirely of "tuba family" members, all built prior to 1866.

Haugan wrote:
... or "War Between the States" if you live south of the Mason-Dixon line). ...

Actually down here (the Capital of the Confederacy) it's more often refered to as the war of Northern agression.

bloke wrote:

Lew wrote:Actually down here (the Capital of the Confederacy) it's more often refered to as the war of Northern agression.

' sure glad those conflicts are all settled now...

<img src="http://tinypic.com/fe2via.png">

Right!!!?

I'de heard that term also, but wasn't aware of it being used currently so widely. It's interesting that the remnants of the conflict exist 140 years after it's "demise". I was married to a southern (Savannah, Ga.) woman for 10 years, and those of us in the north often don't understand the extent of the devastation caused by the conflict or see the reasons for any residual resentment. The battles weren't fought in our "back yards" nor did the north suffer the tremendous losses (virtually every southerner I know can list off multiple relatives killed in the conflict) experienced by southern families. Up here, there are a multitude of people (like myself) who's relatives at the time were digging up potatos in Norway, or fighting wars of their own somewhere in Europe. To the bulk of us, the "Civil War" is part of a history lesson, and not so closely integrated into our family history. If "the south rises again" I hope it will be for the right reasons, whatever they may be. YANKEE - a person of northern heritage. DAMN YANKEE - A person of northern heritage that relocates in the south.

Haugan wrote:virtually every southerner I know can list off multiple relatives killed in the conflict.

While I certainly agree that many American's don't know or appreciate their history enough to recognize the devestation of the Civil War (or whatever you choose to call it), this statement reminds me how people like to link themselves with the past in a somewhat romantic fashion.

Since moving to the Great Lakes region, you can't imagine how many people tell me they had family go down with the Edmund Fitzgerald. From my rough calculations, based on how many people have made this claim, the Fitzgerald must of had a crew of thousands.

If you're living in Sturgeon Bay, you probably HAVE met close to [a thousand] people who actually DID have relatives go down with the "Edmund Fitzgerald". Northern folk have this quaint notion that a lot of people are related to each other in the South, probably due to the parade of "kissin' cousins" seen on "Jerry Springer" or a concept of Southerners based on watching "The Beverly Hillbillies" or "The Dukes of Hazard". Truth is, in sparsley populated regions, whether West Virginia, Tennessee, or "northwoods Wisconsin" you tend to find a LOT of people related to each other. It could be the're all telling the truth.....

Lew wrote:Actually down here (the Capital of the Confederacy) it's more often refered to as the war of Northern agression.

You would not believe how many people in Georgia consider Virginia to be "The North".