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Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:49 am**

I've lived in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area my whole life, but have only recently begun making a concerted effort to find freelance work. Overall, I get more calls for dixieland bands than anything else. There's a lot going on in modern jazz and other improvised music also, but not for pay (or rarely). I haven't been able to break in with any chamber ensembles, at least not on a regular basis. Outside of MNOrch and SPCO, there's not much orchestrally either, and even the regional groups that pay seem to be pretty well nailed down by guys two or three times my age; I've been called once and I couldn't do it anyway. As for teaching, this is a very sprawled metro area and most all of the students are in the burbs where the money is, making it difficult to put together more than a couple without driving all over town or moving out there.

Overall, I give it a B- or C+. I seem to stumble on some pretty unusual things that pay ok without ever really breaking into the more "mainstream" kinds of tuba gigs like regional orchestras and quintets, but that might be because my interests lie mostly outside of that mainstream. Personally, I miss the chamber music the most.o

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:24 am**

I have always been fortunate enough to find enough music work here in the southeast to eat regularly but this is not the place to get rich.My wife worked as a union printer and our incomes were similar. Like most trades,the way to get ahead is to keep one wife and pay bills off as you go. I traveled to the big cities trying to "make it"but after three years on the road and two kids in high school,I opted to come back home and make less so I wouldn't miss everything.I'm glad I did.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:40 am**

I am not a freelancer, but have siblings who are, and the best places to be are the same places that always come up as the places to get work in the arts, New York or LA, not necessarily in that order.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:47 am**

New York still works for me, however I don't know how I'd do it if I didn't play the bass. Are you moving LV? Peace. ASG

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:05 pm**

What is the scene like in Boston/ New England area? I am beginning to contemplate a move there in the near future.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 1:49 pm**

Not sure about the "gig scene," but I have known several players to move to large Texas cities (Houston, Dallas, Ft. Worth, etc...) due to the HUGE amount of private teaching you can do. Most Texas band directors are very serious about their private lesson programs, and you can usually charge whatever you want.

Its good money, and gives you loads of free time to drink, er, practice...

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:10 pm**

I agree with the Texas suggestion. I freelance in the Dallas area, on euph and trombone. I'm still new on the scene but am getting more gigs gradually. But the real money is in private teaching. What was stated above about being able to charge what you want is inaccuate, most districts tell you what you can charge and it is anywhere from $14.00 to $17.00. Its good money if you can get into a district and stay there and get a good rep. Most of the instructors here have about over 50 students I have about 70 which is a lot but I like money! hehe I work usually around 7am to 6pm everyday except friday with a 2 hour lunch break which is usually practice time. I enjoy it and its a sweet gig as you really dont have a boss and you can set your own hours. There are several DFW freelancers and studio instructors on this board so if Texas looks appealing then you have some resources

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:13 pm**

half an hour or half of their class period.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 3:53 pm**

the elephant wrote:... and certain colleagues that now bug me enough that I want to shoot myself every time they show up in my field of vision.

Understandable and acceptable; but when shoot myself turns to shoot them, you need to move back to Texas.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 4:24 pm**

Allow me to clarify:

Most school districts "encourage" a set price for lessons. If you have a music degree from a university (no longer a college student), and the band director really wants you to teach their kiddos, you can charge whatever you want. Believe me, just because the band director tells you "Lessons are $15 per half-hour" that doesn't mean that it has to be that.

If they want you bad enough, you can likely charge up to $20 for a half-hour. I have some buddies in the Houston area charging their own rates in VERY prominent band programs.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:55 pm**

Bigger City = More Music / More Progressive attitude towards life

...and situations that can support a "freelancing lifestyle" and where lots of other people freelance. (it is hard to be a freelancer / creative person in general in Anytown USA where clones aspire to be "normal")

BUT also

Bigger City = More great players in the mix and a higher cost of living

BUT, I think we get what we pay for.

And...,
ABOVE ALL:

Bigger City = More wonderful energy that provides inspiration and strength to keep going in a difficult freelance lifestyle.

...that's how it works for me, anyway.

Posted: **Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:56 pm**

Houston area that might be true but in the DFW the districts tell you what to charge since you are using their facilites to teach, you can teach some students at your house outside of school hours and on weekends and charge what you want but thats the only case, no matter how big of a bad *** you are, I honestly wish they would let us charge what we want that would be sweet.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:28 am**

snufflelufigus wrote: Living in NYC has taught me that no one is going to be calling you. The people that you thought were friends aren't really going to be calling you unless you have gigs to offer them. Yeah, I know... here goes Ron ranting again... but... unless you're freelancing at some gigs or have some gigs to give out no one is going to be calling you! And, if you're some bad *** like... well, most guys aren't going to call you 'cause you might steal their gig. So, you need to be good but not good enough. Sorry, to be so brutally honest. Invest in yourself and do YOUR OWN THING!
r

Ron is EXACTLY right. We are all in charge of our own destiny. The freelancing world is quite often an "every person for themselves" situation.

No matter where you are, you cant expect the phone to ring... you have to make things happen for yourself -- this is ESPECIALLY true as tubists.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 3:29 am**

Northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin is BAAAAAD, really BAD!! NO work here, None!!! You'll starve for SURE.

Stay Awaay!!

(Common freelancer observation, every home locale)

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:24 am**

You guys are missing the point (as does this whole thread)

Under common criteria, it's bad everywhere. That's the point. Live music has and will continue to be a dying art -- especially in this country -- where our pinnacle of art is American Idol... blah blah. And NO, dixie, bebop, ballroom dance, or polka is not going to be "the thing" again, ever.

So what. Dont let that stop you. Just play the music you love and play it often, in public. In any locale you have to make your own opportunities.

ANYWHERE YOU GO the established ensembles that use tubas in them are already filled and then some -- with other great players just waiting in the wings ready to pounce (usually their students, who are followed by other students)

You have the following choices:

1.) Fight for those few existing gigs
2.) Create new ones for yourself
3.) Be a badass and people might create some for you

Btw, schools teach you EXCLUSIVELY only how to do #1 (or how to teach how to teach #1)

Worrying about if you will survive in a given market or city is the wrong approach. You cant think of the money that way (yes, I know it is hard not to...)

You have to think of it only in terms of making music for the music -- for the people, for your friends, for yourself.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:27 am**

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:19 am**

Wow Joe, I thought everyone would see my post for what it was: A cynical joke about how precious little work there is, and how well guarded it can be. To answer the post a little more truthfully, I would have to say that where I live (Milwaukee- grew up in Madison, studied in Chicago) is actually a pretty good place to be. There are at least 9 orchestras that pay $80-125.oo per service (for principals), with 4-26 "subscription" concerts and numerous pops, youth, etc. concerts within 100 miles of my home, and the region's German historical background ensures that there is even a contingency of YOUNGER people that like POLKA music.

Like anywhere else, there isn't enough work for all the good tuba players, and we have some pretty good ones in this neck of the woods. You wouldn't believe how good some of the guys playing even the "polka circuit" are. So, here's a truthful answer: Yeah; it's good here, but if you show up, be prepared to take your place in the back of the line behind the "local talent". You're not going to "wow" anybody around here with what you learned in L.A. or New York City.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 8:05 am**

Haugan wrote:Wow Joe, I thought everyone would see my post for what it was: A cynical joke about how precious little work there is, and how well guarded it can be.

Not to worry: some of us got it.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 12:51 pm**

I'm with ya now -- I guess the sarcasm slipped past me in the moment --

Haugan wrote: if you show up, be prepared to take your place in the back of the line behind the "local talent". You're not going to "wow" anybody around here with what you learned in L.A. or New York City.

Cool, we're in complete agreement.

Overall I was supporting Ron and responding to the nature of the whole thread in general.

This thread pops up regularly every now and then -- and I get emails periodically asking the same thing...

I was gearing the whole thing towards players getting ready to finish school and head out into the world. ...and to dispel the rumor that the grass may be greener and it up to ourselves to make it happen.

This thread is such a common and unfortunate misconception...

I REALLY think that teachers need to teach more life skills...
Survival, business, creativity etc... not just Die Meistersinger.

Posted: **Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:08 pm**

Good answer. Also important to be aware that testing happens FREQUENTLY in Texas schools. My experience in Texas was that students, parents and directors alike are horrible at communicating about events that will conflict with lessons and then it can be like pulling teeth to get someone to cover the cost of that lesson.

Also, be aware that as a private teacher you are NOT an employee of these school districts. Therefore, you must file your taxes as self-employed, which can have devastating tax implications.

Lots of talent in these programs (I had over 60 students at one point), but lots of headaches too. Gotta say, I'm glad to be back in NYC! Guess it's the yankee blood!

the elephant wrote:Almost 100% of the time Texas schools use 1/2 hour lessons if the student is drawn from a class.

The rates are fixed, differing slightly from place to place.

Landing an entire district with a highly competitive band program is the sweetest deal. Oft times they will feed the kids to you and even set up your basic schedule. You work out when you can be there and the students just start showing up. In big programs it can run as smooth as silk; there are exceptions, of course.

If you have 50 kids, you work 25 hours each week. If you are earning a mere $10 per lesson, that is about $2000 per month net pay. In most programs, the student owes you money if they fail to inform you that they will be absent. They are paying you for your time theoretically. And you will never make as little as $10 per lesson. So, if you are making $15 per, in the scenario above you will take home more like $3000 per month if everyone pays on time and you are not sick and miss a day.

However, when you are sick, that income is generally lost for good. Do not get sick for an extended period of time!

Also on the downside is the fact that in some programs you must collect your fees yourself. If Junior leaves the check on the table in the morning then you will have to wait another week for that money. Some places have methods to combat this problem.

Some parents will try to get you fired if you are anything less than whiz-bang fun for their precious, brain-dead little video-gamer. I have seen this happen on three occasions. It can suck if the parent of one of your kids is on the local school board or an administrator and the kid is not really interested in taking lessons. Many of your students are only in the room with you because it is required of them and will be very unrewarding to "teach" at times. I have heard of some kids being quite sullen and smart-alecky in these cases. This is rare, however.

Some new, young, inexperienced band directors are not too good at politics and business and might hire you only to "encourage" your students to study with Mr. So-and-so, the NEW teacher of your instrument that you were never told about. Then you show up to work and no one is enrolled to study with you any more. It turns out that the "new" teacher that was snuck in under less-than-professional circumstances is the recently-graduated former roommate of the new band director, who is helping his friend out . . . at your expense. I witnessed this at least four times and think that it might have been the case in a few other instances where old private teachers were not fired, but just stopped showing up for no reason apparent to the other teachers. I only heard of this sort of sneaky behavior coming from very new band directors that were unaware of the sort of damage that they could cause themselves by doing this sort of stuff. Never heard of it from anyone that has been directing more than a few years.

I usually carried anywhere from 30 to 50 students while an undergrad at UNT. That income plus my freelance work paid all of my bills for about 4 years. (My first year I managed the Summit Stationers at Golden Triangle Mall . . . shudder . . . )

With all of the inherent oddities of doing this as a real job, I very much liked my experiences. Most of the bad things mentioned before by me happened to friends of mine. I was pretty well organized and had a very competitive studio in general, with many kids making District, Region, Area, and State in TMEA. I liked most of my parents, most of my kids (only felt compelled to drop two in four years) and only hated one band director (who shall remain nameless).

Freelance playing in the D/FW area was plentiful if you could wait the two to three year period needed to work into the scene (if you are a no-name undergrad kid like I was at the time). I did a lot of interesting gigs and got to play great music with many, many fine players. Just watch out for that Lighthouse Church of the Rock! They spontaneously made my quintet march around and improvise some tunes for over 30 minutes once!! Ouch!! Also try to avoid the live car lot gigs where the owner is sponsoring the Saturday afternoon movie and you sit there for a few hours and play during the commercial breaks and get called names during the movie! I hope that those days have finally ended . . .

D/FW has by far more playing for more people, but Houston has the really great teaching opportunities. Neither is very far behind the other in either area, however. San Antonio has nearly zero freelance on a regular, pay-your-rent-type basis unless you have been there for many years and drum it up yourself. I grew up there and have followed the trends there with great interest through lots of old friends. However, Ray might counter me on that one, as he is there and has never run away like I did. He has been working in that town longer than any TubeNetter, being the one real tuba "constant" in that town for decades. Teaching in San Antonio is (maybe) less stressful/competitive than in D/FW or Houston.

Austin has a very decent freelance scene for those already there and established. I do not recommend moving there as it is not a gigantic town and already has too many really fine tubists poking around looking for gigs. Teaching is also very good in Austin, but can only be spread so thin as well. Do not go there unless you choose to live there for good, or you will just take money from the local pros. They do alright, but do not need to share with short term, musical tourists.

The Rio Grande Valley is good for teaching. The whole state is pretty decent for teaching, but because of the size and sparse population, if you are out of a major city you will have to drive a lot.

I had a friend that really enjoyed living in the border towns. (???) He made a great living teaching trumpet in several towns. Cost of living is really low (or was) and he bumped around between Eagle Pass, Del Rio, Laredo and all points between for a few years. Then he went into the service as a trumpeter.

Texas is very do-able if you want to go there as a private teacher. It can be very decent as a freelancer in several places as well.

I often think about leaving my gig in Jackson and going home to San Antonio to get back into the repair business (which I sorely miss) or to go to Corpus or Brownsville to teach and to "disappear" from our Union CBA, Orchestra Committee, politics in general, and certain colleagues that now bug me enough that I want to shoot myself every time they show up in my field of vision.

WOW! Was that long or what?

If I have misrepresented any part of my home state's musical scene, please forgive me and correct me gently . . .

I have been in Mississippi for 13 years now and am probably pretty far off by now. And yeah, I am aware that I omitted El Paso. I know nothing about the scene there. (It is over 500 miles from my mom's house and I have never had call to even visit it once in my 40 years. I must make time to do that one day . . . )

Wade

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Best freelancing city/area for tubists...

Texas?

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freelance area

Re: freelance area

freelancing

Re: freelancing