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I'd like to pose a question that has nothing to do with my opinion of any of these instruments, because I've never played any of them.

You've told us why your teacher doesn't want you to get a Willson (I have NO opinion of whether he/she is right or wrong); but with two other alternatives, you seem to want to keep the Willson in the running. That tells me that you REALLY want the Willson, and want us to tell you it's okay. So my question is, why do YOU want the Willson enough to risk alienating your teacher? Have you played one? Know a euph stud that does? Know where to get one cheap? Like the logo? What is it about the Willson that causes you to want it so badly?

I'd also discourage thinking about your needs more than 3-5 years down the pipe. A LOT can happen. A new horn could come out that would make you forget all of these, or the 'lifetime' horn you buy today could be run over by a truck tomorrow. You might even change your mind about majoring in music (happens to a LOT of folks who are SURE that's what they want to do in High School -- happened to me, in fact!) So be thinking about what you need for the next few years, and let the rest of your life take care of itself, at least where your choice of an instrument is concerned.

I hope you don't take anything I've said as 'coming down' on you. I just know a little about successful decision processes, and think there's something going on in this one that hasn't been stated. If you want people here to help, they need to know all the facts. But it's good that you recognize this as an important decision. I wish you the very best.
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Joe Baker, who has an idea for a poll....

Cassie,

I played on a 2900 for ten years before switching to a Yamaha 842 almost three years ago. I am more than satisfied with the results, but I must stress that my choice of new horn was based more on getting a great deal than on "I want that one."

That being said, this was my reasoning for wanting to switch away from the Willson. 1) Too much of a tubby, tenor-tubaish sound. Now, I honestly believe that this problem was much more central to my individual horn than to Willsons in general. I've heard many players with incredibly centered and focused sounds (Dr. Bowman and my teacher Dave Zerkel to name a couple) who play on 2900s. 2) The flat A-natural intonation quirk. To be quite honest, I was sick of fighting it, and I found that my ear was beginning to hear As flat in general as a result.

The 842 is a stellar horn, but not without its own intonation quirks. I simply found that it fit my needs better than the Willson. That's the major question you need to answer for yourself. Figure out what you want, then find the axe that gets you their most easily. Good luck!

Cassie, here is my $.02 -

When you are dealing with your first major instrument purchase, you have to take what your teacher is telling you "under advisement."

There are many stellar instruments out there. To go by, "who plays what," is not a good way to approach it. You need to look at how much do I want to spend, and what do I want to do with this horn?

I perform on a Besson 2052, so here is my take on the following horns, this is a "I don't care what you buy" approach.

The 642/842 - This is a great horn. Yamaha instruments are made by a computer and a machine, so the great thing about these horns are there are virtually no "duds". They play well, have even response, and is a solid horn. I will say that I know of players that have had problems with the finish wearing very quickly on these.

2900 - Another staple of the inventory. I myself did not purchase one of these, because at the time it could not be purchased with a large shank receiver. Now, I believe that it can be special ordered with one. I have played on one before for an extended period of time. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the build quality, and they are solid. The DEG factory would like you to think that they are all solid, but you would need to play a few to find, "the one."

Hirsbrunner - Your teacher is probably talking about the Exclusive model, which is another very fine horn. This horn is a copy of the Besson New Standard model. I played on one of these a while back when I was shopping, and they play well - the downside is that there is only ONE place to buy them in the US, they are VERY expensive, and they have a tendency to be a little "quirky." You would again need to go sit down with a few of them and find - the one.

In regards to what you should do. Basically, the only place that you can go and play on all of these horns in one setting is Custom Music in Michigan. They have good people there, and they will generally be helpful. Go and play. Play something that you sound good on now. Check all facets of the horn, and take someone along who you value their opinion of your sound.

You inevitably will like one better than the other, and that is how you choose. For me, I liked the Besson because it has a huge, open sound, I liked the valves, and it worked.

I hope this helps. If you would like any further discussion, please feel free to PM or email. Thanks!

- Pat Stuckemeyer

Some things to remember:

Like everyone has said, and I can't stress this enough, spend time with each horn before you decide! It is absolutely a personal preference. Each of the horns mentioned have their own advantages and disadvantages, and you have to decide which you like more.

The 642 and the 842 are different horns. They play similarly, but they should both be played as they have their own qualities.

The Willsons should both be played two (2900 and 2950) and more than one of each as they tend to vary too. The Yamahas don't vary really, but that's not to say they are superior, it's just that Yamaha has virtually perfected quality control (to an extent).

The Hirs euphs, I don't have much experience with other than knowing that they are expensive. If you can afford one and get ahold of one to play, you should. But the high price doesn't mean that they are necessarily the best euph out there.

Also try to play the Miraphone and Meinl Weston euphs, they aren't bad and you may prefer them.

If you ask me, I play on a 642 and the only horn I like more is an 842. But if you ask someone else, they'll prefer a different horn. No one horn is perfect for everyone.

Good luck!

yes, i am afraid of wilson euphoniums, i had an expierience that scared me for life when i was looking at euphoniums 2 summers ago, when i just started out on euphonium. Anywho, i tried the wilson.....which is open like no one's buissnes. And if you mean lots of air....of course i remind you that this was 4 months into my playing euph, when my grandpa offered to spoil his only grandchild, but there isnt anything wrong with that. . So i tried the Yamahaa 642. That was easier and much more familiar than the wilson. And the sound from a 642 can be made big. so yeah thats my 2 cents.

I was attacked by a Willson as a small child, and I still go into cold sweats whenever I hear one.

Any one of the euphs mentioned would be fine for many many years. They are all high quality, from the least expensive 642 to the most expensive hirsbrunner. Basing a decision on who plays what is never good. Of course most of Dr. Bowman's studio plays on Willsons, HE plays one. Most of Steven Meads studio plays on Bessons. And I bet Adam Frey's students in the future will tend to own more 842's (he is a Yamaha artist by the way, he played Hirsbrunners before and on "Listen to This" but he is now playing on an 842). You tend to go for the horn and sound that your teacher has. That isn't a bad thing, but keep in mind that many pros use lots of different horns.

I'm not trying to discourage you from buying the 2900, I think it's a great horn, but I am saying that you need to spend some good time with a bunch of horns before you decide that one is good for you. That would be the best use of your money.

p.s. As euph players, we're lucky enough to have so few choices that we really can spend one day and give a good amount of playing time to all of the common professional horns around. Trumpet, trombone and tuba players can not say the same

Also, you might make an appointment with your teacher with your parents, and explain your financial situation to him, so he will suggest a horn in your price range.

Also consider slightly used instruments. They depreciate anywhere between 1/3 to 1/2 off the new price, and if they have been checked over by a good tech, are sometimes "better" than new in that any minor glitches in the manufacturing process have been taken care of.

euphba wrote:
About me possibly changing my decision to music major..sorry, but it isn't going to happen. If I did change my mind, the last four years of my life and thousands of dollars have went to nothing. I am a senior at Interlochen Arts Academy as a euphonium major, I can't see any other future other than in music for me.

Been there...done that (although not at Interlochen)...said the same thing...did an undergraduate music major for 3 1/2 years...changed majors (lots of reasons)

...Still have as much passion for music as ever

...Still have two wonderful tubas...

...Still play a lot (and make money doing it)

...Don't think I (personally) wasted much time or money along the way

Joe was just trying to point out that things change. I too was one of those "can't do anything in college but music" type people and look what happened...

Someone else you may wish to consult is the euphonium teacher the university at which you wish to do you performance degree. There are a few teachers out there who push a specific instrument (for a variety of reasons). Most only care that you have a horn that helps you sound great. Either way, check with the professor that you intend to spend a lot of time with in lessons.

edited

Hi Cassie,

So much to go on re the reviews, you asked for opinions and you sure got them!

The case in the U.K. (if it's of any interest) is almost opposite to the general comments posted.

Willson have been scarce over here for some time, only now are they being appreciated for what they are, one of the best on offer. There is no problem with quality control on Willsons sent to the UK and they all have large b/tbn receivers which makes a huge difference to the sound believe me.

Yamahas are popular and getting more so, but quality control (build & finish) in the UK is variable, and the instruments prone to easy damage in the hard life of brass bands.

Besson continue to go off the rails, some Sovereigns are better than the current Prestige models, others vary enormously. You have more chance of a good one from the 70's (although the 4th. valve bore was smaller then) than a good one today. The fact that everyone plays one does not mean that they are any good, but that bands in the UK have suffered them for so long, we stopped complaining!

For others like Miraphone and Courtois, take up is slow as they vary from the norm more than others, that's where the personal choice comes in, and one that you will be forced to make.

Try what you can, go with 'your' own choice at the end of the day 'regardless' of others, tutors etc, bite the bullet and be happy with your selection.

CB

bloke wrote:

uhhh....he plays the trombone.. he does not own his own euphonium or tuba, he's a trombone man.

You caught that little point (link provided), did you?

Your link provided the fact that he does not own his own euphonium or tuba? Where?


Ignore Bloke, euphba, he is just a mean man. I personally think its a fine idea to gather as many opinions as one can before laying down a large chunk of change on ANY purchase. Just because you have a teacher (that you are paying), does NOT mean they are the end-all for every choice you make...

Do your research, and make an educated choice, even if it is some advice from us "freaks."

I had my lesson yesterday, and in this lesson my teacher and we had "the big talk". Yes, we talked about me getting a better euphonium. I am currently playing on my school's Yamaha 321 (four vlave, non-compensating, small bore). Here is my dilema: I want a Willson 2900, he wants me to get a Yamaha 642 or a Hirsbrunner (didn't specify model).

Here is my question (for the euphers):
out of the Willson 2900, Yamaha 642, and (a) Hirsbrunner, what do you perform on/ suggest?

I am looking for a euphonium I can go to college with (performance major) and spend a great deal of my teaching/performing life with (hopefully...).

I am about to risk getting flamed off this board with my very first post, but here goes anyway......

Why not look into buying a horn similar to what your teacher plays - something like an Edwards, or a Bach, or a Shires etc etc.

When I was a sophomore in HS, a teacher, to whom I am forever indebted, pointed out to me that no matter how talented I was, if I stuck with euphonium, my options would be extremely limited. I loved, (and still love) playing the euphonium, but I took his advice, bought a trombone, and have never looked back. Five years later, I started earning my living on trombone, and I can’t imagine a more enjoyable career. (My mother has only recently forgiven me for becoming a trombonist however. She still much prefers my euphonium playing to my trombone playing.)

Euphonium is a beautiful instrument, but then so are the cornet, flügelhorn, and oboe d’amore. Nobody majors in those instruments in college because in order to get the opportunity to play them in the best professional situations, you must be able to play their more mainstream brothers and sisters.

By all means, continue to study and play your euphonium, but if you haven’t already, start taking trombone lessons. Your musical options will be expanded greatly if you master the trombone, and as a bonus, playing the trombone should improve your euphonium playing too.


Eric Carlson, 2nd Trombone & euphonium
Philadelphia Orchestra

So, the horns... right?!?

I actually had the same dilema when I was applying for what colleges and degree programs I was going to do. I really want to do euphonium performance, but I know there aren't a lot of jobs out there for euphonium players, and everyone I talked to told me I should be an education major...except I don't ever want to be a teacher beyond private lessons.

In any case, my solution was the get into another business to make a living: instrument repair. Apparently, it takes about a 1-year course at one of the few colleges that offer it, and then some years spent apprenticing at a shop. I intend on going to a 4-year college/conservatory for euphonium performance, and then working on becoming a repairman. And once I have a steady job, maybe work towards a masters...

So, "go for all your hopes and dreams" of being a euphonium performer! ...but have a back-up plan

bloke wrote:I just heard Jason Ham, the euphonium player in the West Point band, play in a recital, and he is an absolute virtuoso. The West Point band is not considered one of the "premiere" bands...so this tells me that the competition is extremely stiff for all existing euphonium jobs (jobs which only exist in the military band genre/sector).

I studied with Jason a bit over the summer, he's a monster player and a great guy to boot.

euphba, if you're going to buy a horn used, just make sure you can play it first and make sure it's not bad. We can all debate the differences of all of the horns, and yes you should try a bunch and choose which is better for you, but Brian Bowman is going to sound like Brian Bowman on a Willson, a Yamaha, a Hirsbrunner, a Besson, etc...

Any one of these pro level horns is going to give you what you need to succeed.

Posaune2 wrote: I am about to risk getting flamed off this board with my very first post, but here goes anyway......

Why not look into buying a horn similar to what your teacher plays - something like an Edwards, or a Bach, or a Shires etc etc.

When I was a sophomore in HS, a teacher, to whom I am forever indebted, pointed out to me that no matter how talented I was, if I stuck with euphonium, my options would be extremely limited. I loved, (and still love) playing the euphonium, but I took his advice, bought a trombone, and have never looked back. Five years later, I started earning my living on trombone, and I can’t imagine a more enjoyable career. (My mother has only recently forgiven me for becoming a trombonist however. She still much prefers my euphonium playing to my trombone playing.)

Euphonium is a beautiful instrument, but then so are the cornet, flügelhorn, and oboe d’amore. Nobody majors in those instruments in college because in order to get the opportunity to play them in the best professional situations, you must be able to play their more mainstream brothers and sisters.

By all means, continue to study and play your euphonium, but if you haven’t already, start taking trombone lessons. Your musical options will be expanded greatly if you master the trombone, and as a bonus, playing the trombone should improve your euphonium playing too.


Eric Carlson, 2nd Trombone & euphonium
Philadelphia Orchestra

I think that this is a great point. And I do understand this statement too.

euphba wrote: I do own a trombone, but I would never be able to be sucessful on it. I can't pretend to like it enough to be sucessful. Somehow, I dislike everything about the trombone. I have really tried to pretend to like the trombone, but my preffered double is the tuba. There is a lot I don't want to have to explain, I just refuse to play that instrument. Good suggestion, it just doesn't work for me, sorry

There are lots of ways to make a living in music. Other than military bands (which is a very honorable calling, but also very competitive and not for everybody) playing euphonium is probably among the least likely way to do so. I can't understand why anyone in the US would major in euphonium performance in college.

If you are determined to do so, make sure that you not only graduate as an outstanding player, but with a detailed and comprehensive knowledge of every aspect of music. I'm not advocating Music Ed as a "fall back" position. I think that, unlike Mr. Holland, people who fall back on a music education career are doing themselves and their students a disservice. But, if you're going to spend the money on four years of college, it should provide a lot more than 4 years of perfecting playing euphonium.

bloke wrote:I just heard Jason Ham, the euphonium player in the West Point band, play in a recital, and he is an absolute virtuoso. The West Point band is not considered one of the "premiere" bands...so this tells me that the competition is extremely stiff for all existing euphonium jobs (jobs which only exist in the military band genre/sector).

West Point band is indeed an Army premier band:

http://www.goarmy.com/band/special_army_bands.jsp