TubeNet

Hello all,

I have been wondering how many tubists maintain proficiency on differently-keyed tubas. I know that quite a few play CC and F (or BBb and F, or CC and Eb). How about playing BBb and CC? Are there many tubists who do that? Just military band tubists/sousaphonists?

The reason I'm asking is because I would like to get a bigger contrabass tuba for band -- I think a 6/4 would be about right. However, when I look at the prices of CC versus BBb tubas, I note a big contrast in prices! I don't want to give up playing my fine 4/4 CC tuba. If I were rich, I would not worry about buying a big CC, and wouldn't bother maintaining proficiency in both BBb and CC fingerings. However, if it's too hard, then perhaps I should save my pennies.

Of course, I would like to get a bass tuba one of these days -- probably an F. [I do own a wreck of an instrument that we call an Eb dent-o-phone, but that doesn't count.] Let's see, how about maintaing proficiency in three keys of tubas. Ah well, how about all four?

How about it tube-netters, how hard is it to know (simultaneously) multiple sets of fingerings?

Allen Walker

You can know all these different fingerings but you have to use them semi-regularly to stay up to speed. It's like learning a foreign language. If you don't speak it often enough you lose the vocabulary and facility.

My teacher maintains three, and doesn't really seem to be killing himself over it. It took some getting used to, but during marching season, I got pretty good at switching between BBb and CC fingerings myself. It can be done, but you'd have to work at it.

I don't have any problem switching between CC, F, and Eb but BBb throws me except for sousaphone. I guess I treat each as a different instrument, but for some reason going from a CC to a BBb, the CC fingerings creep in.

On a side note, I'm having to play euphonium in our Army National Guard band because one retired and another is TDY. Sometimes I'll play a CC fingering. There's a reason my tuba teacher in 11th grade made me switch from baritonium to tuba, now I know.

Allen wrote:
I have been wondering how many tubists maintain proficiency on differently-keyed tubas. I know that quite a few play CC and F (or BBb and F, or CC and Eb). How about playing BBb and CC? Are there many tubists who do that?

I own and play on my CC and F tubas, but don't find playing on a BBb every now and then to be a big deal. I would like to point out that lots of college folks play CC and F and do a lot of BBb sousaphone work during football or basketball seasons in marching or pep bands.

The reason I'm asking is because I would like to get a bigger contrabass tuba for band -- I think a 6/4 would be about right. However, when I look at the prices of CC versus BBb tubas, I note a big contrast in prices! I don't want to give up playing my fine 4/4 CC tuba. If I were rich, I would not worry about buying a big CC, and wouldn't bother maintaining proficiency in both BBb and CC fingerings. However, if it's too hard, then perhaps I should save my pennies.

Save your money for the tuba you really want. I sounds like you want a 6/4 CC but are trying to get us to talk you into going with the BBb now because it's cheaper.

Of course, I would like to get a bass tuba one of these days -- probably an F. [I do own a wreck of an instrument that we call an Eb dent-o-phone, but that doesn't count.] Let's see, how about maintaing proficiency in three keys of tubas. Ah well, how about all four?

If you're worried about it being difficult to switch between BBb and CC because of finger issues, you'll have a tough time with F tuba which is about half BBb fingerings and half CC fingerings

How about it tube-netters, how hard is it to know (simultaneously) multiple sets of fingerings?

I don't even think about it...I've been playing different keyed tubas long enough that it's just automatic. As with everything, it takes some practice. That practice is sure a lot easier when you have a pretty good grip on your scales and key signatures though...

I think that it really depends on the person and the amount of time you put into it. If you think about it the fingerings aren't really different, they just start in a different place. Someone with good music theory understanding should have no problem with a tuba in any key.

I, on the other hand, have never studied music beyond High School (more than 30 years ago) and am just now becoming comfortable switching back and forth between BBb and Eb. I only ever played a BBb, but about 2 years ago bought an Eb as a challenge and because I thought it would be good for certain types of groups. I still slip up and revert to BBb fingerings sometimes, especially in fast passages, but for the most part have no trouble maintaining both with about 4-5 hours a week on each. I do find that switching forces me to concentrate a little more when playing, but that's probably a good thing.

I am quite fluent with Eb and BBb fingerings and can switch back and forth from one tune to the next if I want. I DO tend to associate the fingerings with the type of music I usually use the different horns for... IE... German - BBb; concert band stuff - BBb; Dixieland - Eb.

Gigs this weekend were as follows: Friday from 5 to 6pm - Christmas carolling with an Eb helicon; Friday from 8pm to 11pm - German music with a BBb rotary; Saturday from 3 to 5pm - Dixieland with an Eb bell-front; Saturday from 8 to 11pm - German music with a BBb rotary; Sunday from 1 to 2pm - Christmas carolling with an Eb helicon; Sunday from 3 to 6pm - concert band with a BBb rotary. (I mentioned in another thread that I haven't done TubaChristmas for several years simply because of conflicts in schedules... I wasn't kidding!)

I get along fine with Eb/BBb horns but CC kinda threw me for a loop. I owned a Miraphone CC rotary for six months or so and sold it when it caused too much confusion. I tend to think of different fingerings as totally different instruments. Transposing drives me nuts!

I play both BBb and CC and it doesn't confuse me at first it kind of got to me oh and i play trumpet but that doesn't really confuse me anymore it just took me about a week to get it to where i didn't play the other tuba fingerings. but it isn't a big problem just gotta make sure you don't play BBb when on the CC. but all in all it doesn't really cause a problem. Dunno if that helps but that is kind of a random statement put in alot of bad gramatical things. Best of luck

Pro trumpet players have the same issue and they seem to do OK. And trust me- if a trumpet player can handle the transposition for C/Bb/Eb etc, then almost anyone can do it!

In High School, I'de play BBb tuba at school, and my own CC tuba at home at night. This went on for 2 years, until I talked my H.S. band director into buying a CC tuba when I was a senior in H.S. I got my first F tuba then, as well. Six months later, I got into a German opera orchestra where I went back to playing BBb along with F, and still maintained CC playing. All the while through H.S. I was studying with Arnold Jacobs, and he used to make me play treble clef Arban's in C AND Bb. I played Eb tubas as a lark in H.S., later "seriously" as a member of a Civil War band.

It IS a lot like learning a foreign language....When I read back the course I took in playing the different tubas; it seems like I should be confused beyond belief, but it never seemed that difficult-the more you do it the easier it gets.

This is akin to what my European friends that speak 6 & 7 languages say, after the first two - the rest are easy. I maintain proficiency on BBb, CC, F, tenor Bb (in treble & bass clef) and can "get by" on most Brass Band music on Eb. It SOUNDS like a lot, but all that jumping around makes your brain "connect" in such a way that it will seem SIMPLE with time.

Just like those septe and octelingual people who seem like a wonder to me. They all insist it's easy.

I do play instruments in all four keys, and I try to spend time on each, randomly, to keep them all fresh.

As others have said, the important thing when learning a new keyed horn, is to treat it like a totally different instrument. The different fingerings don't bother me, it's the fingerings that are the same as another instrument, are the ones that can occasionally "derail" me, temporarily, to another key.

Having said all of that, the biggest problem that I personally face with the issue of multiple (keyed) tubas, is not the fingerings, but remembering the intonation idiosyncrasies of each horn.

Thanks a lot for the replies; they were informative.

I'm glad to hear that others do not have a problem switching around. Now, my decision on buying a BBb or CC larger tuba will be about how how much I like the horn versus how much money I'm willing to pay.

Incidentally, I used to play recorders a lot, and would think nothing about switching between C and F instruments for different movements of a piece -- certainly an example of different fingerings for the same notes. I also had to cope with some German publishers thinking that the alto recorder was a transposing instrument ("in F"), versus the rest of the world thinking that the written music for it should be at concert pitch. Then, there was the authentic old music published using the French violin clef...

Actually, the amount of anarchy in tuba keys, fingerings and transpositions could be characterized as a medium amount.

So now I'll go forth and consult my wallet (and more importantly, my wife) about what to get.

Allen Walker

christuba wrote:roger bobo didn't seem to havea problem with it.

Yeah! And if Roger Bobo can do it, then the rest of us can too.

I can just here it now... "I knew Roger Bobo, and Senator, you're no Roger Bobo"

Seriously, I played F, CC and BBb at my BME senior recital in '04. Why - simply because A) I wanted to and B) the pieces I picked each sounded better on a specific horn.

bloke wrote:I would have inserted a potatoe in my pants.

That only works in Indiana...

Last week I played Nutcracker on Eb on Friday night and switched to CC on Satruday. After so many years of playing the ballet the challenge of changing instruments keeps one's attention focused. I switch among all the keys pretty readily. It seems my teacher, Bill Bell, was pretty adept at doing this also.

TheEngineer wrote:Nice ad, it definetly get's people thinking. If you wanted a lot of people to show up you could have left the picture out and let them find out themselves.

Actually I posted these ads above the urinals the day before. I was expecting them to be taken down and possibly reprimanded (it would have been worth it) but wound up being complemented by many of the faculty and administration (for the ads)