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SqueakyOnion wrote:I'm playing on a Denis Wick SM2, if that makes a difference.

I don't know about the MW551, but a SM2 might be too large for a euph. What mouthpiece came with it? Is the intonation better with a normal sized euph mouthpiece? (SM4, 51D, ...)

Personally, I have never played a perfectly in tune horn and know that I never will! Seems to me that this is an issue that should first be discussed with your teacher and the dealer before being brought up to the whole world.

Two suggestions:

1) Play some Rochuts along with a really good bass (or tenor) trombonist. You'll concentrate more on air and good sound, and the pitches will center where they're slotted. Then you'll have a clearer picture of the real intonation problems.

2) After you're warmed up, point a video camera at a tuner (without looking at it) while you play the first couple of pages of Arbans (mostly footballs). Review the tape later. Then you'll be able to get an objective idea of how bad the intonation is / isn't.

I agree with those who say the SM2 is probably too large a mouthpiece, especially if you are switching to it from a small mouthpiece on a 321. Some of the intonation issues may be from switching both to a big bore horn & a very large mouthpiece. That they are clearing up somewhat may show you are adjusting.

That said, an SM2 is a very, very large mouthpiece which only a small minority of good players would ever find the optimum piece. Having spent big bucks for the horn, I would want to get an SM4 and an SM3 and try them in that order to see if they work better for you. Having another person with a trained ear listening is a good idea.

Of the specific tuning issues you mentioned the first valve one -- "For first valve: If I pull out 1st slide about an inch, my Eb, Ab, and high Eb are pretty well in tune, but C is way flat." -- is probably the general problem most euphs face. Middle C is flat unless the first valve tuning slide is pushed all the way in (and even then it may be a bit flat). But at that setting the E flat above it is way sharp. The solution is to pull the tuning slide to a midpoint and lip up the C and lip down the E flat, or, with some horns try some non standard fingerings for the E flat.

I reallly think the SM2 is the most likely problem.

John

SqueakyOnion wrote:Switching to a 4G rather than the SM2 doesn't really change the intonation problems.

Yep...

I've never had a mouthpiece really "fix" intonation problems.

I've had mouthpieces normalize bad tuning qualities of horns.

I have an Olds/Reynolds valve trombone... VB 6.5AL... horrid tuning
Kelly 12c, amazing

a proper mouthpiece for the horn can do alot... though it's mostly voodoo.