TubeNet

Does anyone have news to report from NAMM?

Yes... I went to the NAMM show on Sunday with my mouthpiece at the ready. I stopped by the Jupiter booth first and tried out their 4 valve sousaphone and the 582 and 482 tubas. The sousphone played very nice, the low F just jumps out of this horn along with the other low notes. The body is wrapped just a little too tight for someone with a large frame like me, so the right arm and hand position was a little awkward. They have re-designed the plumbing on the 582 BBb 4/4 tuba but I think the older version played much better. Last year I really liked it, this year I rated it just so-so. Back to the drawing board I hope for another try... The 482 BBb 3/4 was the same as in the past and played OK.

I then walked across the aisle to the Conn-Selmer booth and first tried the Conn 54J CC and it played very stuffy with bad intonation up high. I was VERY disappointed, just like last year. This year they had a King 2341 BBb and it played wonderful. Very free blowing, big tone and nicely in tune. They also had a Holton 346 BBb top action 4V tuba and it played surprizingly nice. It is a big horn, very tall and a little awkward to hold, but a very nice sound. No Harvey Phillips models available and no BBb marching tuba to try... oh well.

The Amati booth only had one very small 3/4 sized tuba on display so I just walked on by and stopped by the Kanstul booth. They were the most helpful staff and gave me the red carpet treatment. (I wonder if they knew that I host their website????) I first tried the big 5/4 900 Model BBb tuba. It was a little "tight" but had a nice sound. By tight I mean you had to work at centering the pitch a little more than normal but it was very doable. And you can't overblow this horn... I tried! The small 902 BBb was nice but the 902 CC was better. The BBb marching tuba they had this year played much better than the one they had on the floor last year.

Next I walked over to the Dalyan booth, they had a larger display of tubas than anyone else at the show this year. 7 BBb tubas and 5 CC tubas, virtually every model horn they make. Across the line they all played very nice, but the Prague 4/4 Rotary Valve BBb Tuba played the best in my opinion. The Perinet 4/4 Piston Valve BBb Tuba was the weakest performer, it was also their only piston valve offering.

There were no Besson horns available at all, gee.... I wonder why?

I then visited the Willson/DEG booth. They had the new 5 valve (4R+1P) CC tuba and a 3100 BBb on display. Both played very, very nice, like Willsons always do. The 3100 sounded a little brighter than I thought it would though. The DEG 5/4 BBb Marching tuba played very as well, and still a little better than the Kanstul.

The real surprize for me was a ditributor that I had never heard of before, J.Michael. They had two horns, a 4 valve top action student model and a 4 rotary valve BBb large 3/4 or small 4/4 size tuba, the model TU-3000, with a .720 bore and 16" bell. Check their website here. It was a REALLY nice playing little horn and sounded WAY bigger than it looked. Smooth action on the valves and the horn looked to be very well made. VERY stable pitch up and down the scale and you could really let loose on this little horn without over blowing it. And the MSRP is only $2600, with a case. The BEST deal of the show, by far...

The Jinbao booth only had two tubas and a sousaphone this year, and there was nothing to write home about there.

I then walked across the street to the Marriott to check out the Yamaha booth. I was very disapointed that they had no tubas on display that could played. In fact they had only ONE tuba in the whole display..... but what a tuba!!! They had the new 826S YamaYork on a pedistal with a big "Do Not Touch" sign on it! But I got to finger the valves anyway. I had a long chat with one of the reps and he said if I wanted to wait around the head rep would be back sometime and I might be able to talk him into letting me try it. I hung out for 20 minutes talking, but he didn't show so I left. But I was told that they are making only 4 horns per year, and only 2 per year are for the U.S. market. And they are all spoken for over the next 4 to 5 years... so get on the waiting list. They claim that the horn is totally hand made except the valve block. The price tag is only a paultry $30,000

Bandmaster wrote:I was told that they are making only 4 horns per year, and only 2 per year are for the U.S. market. And they are all spoken for over the next 4 to 5 years... The price tag is only a paultry $30,000

This is a joke, right? Maybe this is just some kind of BS being spread in the hope that when an unsuspecting bozo sees one for sale online for $20,000, they figure it's the deal of the century and buy without brainpower. That's it, right? Hopefully, the Yamaha rep was just talking out of his @$$ because he didn't have any concrete info. I'd really hate to believe the "4 to 5 years" part, because that means 8 to 10 people fell for this. I know that tuba players on the whole aren't known for being mental giants, but please...

bloke wrote:

Tom Holtz wrote:blah blah blah

Paul Laubin in New York State (an hour or so north of the City on the east shore of the Hudson) produces hand-made oboes and English horns. He no longer accepts orders for English horns. His oboe wait list stays two or three years behind, and delivery on previously-ordered English horns stays 5-7 years behind.

Hype? Nope. The Laubin English horns are, head-and-shoulders, better than any other English horns made in the world. I would predict that when he dies (as he is aging) his English horns will zoom up into and beyond the premium vintage Heckel bassoon prices ($25K and up-up-up).

I believe it. Man, it must be a real PITA to build one of those things. Laubin deserves every dime of what he's charging. You're right, that's not hype. That's a reputation earned by his instruments in the real world. We can only hope that this new Yamaha CC tuba comes close to being as unique and exceptional an instrument as a Laubin English horn.

When there are a few production 826's out there to be heard and played, and a great reputation begins to build around these tubas, swell. Until then, it's all hype. Especially a reputed $30K price tag--that's hype. If any of our fellow TubeNetters have actually gambled $30K on a hyped up tuba without playing it, or even knowing who built it, well, good luck to them.

Dave, I didn't know you were going... I would have went with you!

I'd sure love to play one, but 30,000 dollars worth of lessons would be much more helpful to me.
Peace. ASG

Perhaps it's 30,000 Yen; they just haven't gotten around to converting it

windshieldbug wrote:Perhaps it's 30,000 Yen; they just haven't gotten around to converting it

Now that'd work! (current exchange rate's around 115 yen to the dollar, so 30,000 yen = $261 )

Spent Saturday and Sunday tooling around, pressing the flesh, talking business, etc. Met some great folks, played some surprisingly good horns.

Of course, standard disclaimers apply - these are just my thoughts and opinions, your mileage may vary...

Of all the BBb horns I played, the one that surprised me the most was the Jupiter 582. First time I'd ever tried one. I thought it played pretty well, and the price was great too. Thank Charlie Krause for that one. Their smallest horn (model number escapes me) played pretty well too. The other two were so-so. Quad 4-valve sousaphone (very 20K-ish design and specs) was decent. Smaller 3-valve sousa (very King-ish) was so-so.

Dalyans (I played each one) were nothing to write home about, IMHO. All copies of various breeds of horns, with perhaps some slight tweaks here and there. The original source horns for their models (most of which I've played) I'd rate higher than these copies. I'd agree with Bandmaster that their Prague was the best of the bunch.

Werils were a little rough, although their 3/4 front-action horn wasn't bad.

For being an established "player" in the biz, gotta say Conn-Selmer was somewhat of a disappointment. 2341, 54J, 20K, some others - all somewhat marginal horns. I'd played the 52-56J series for the first time at the show in Vegas a while back. Didn't do much of anything for me, and the 54J at the show did nothing to change my mind.

Yes, Willson had a rotary 3050 there! Great axe, plays about the same as mine. Spoke with Dan Getzen for quite some time about the ergonomic issues, and will be following up with him and sending pixx of mods Robb Stewart has made to my horn. These will be passed onto Willy Kurath, and perhaps some thought will stimulated in his mind. Willy's apparently going to be at ITEC, and will get a chance to see my horn there.

Tiny Amati rotary horn - not good.

Saw some instrument stands I was unfamiliar with - Hercules. Very nice line, seemed to be quite well-made. Info here:

http://www.herculesstands.com/

They have a couple stands for holding horns when not playing. I spoke with the rep about adding a floor stand for playing, and will following up with him and discussing some ideas.

The Yamayork. Yessssss..........

My wife and I do freelance computer graphics for Yamaha, and much of their NAMM signage and all of their dealer pricing guides passed through our computers. As a result, I have a bit of an "in" with the market managers, and got to spend some time with the 826. Norm Pearson and Jim Self were also there to try it out on Saturday.

This is "prototype version 9", and is basically dialed in, i.e. I can't imagine them doing any tweaking beyond this point. Gene Pokorny has the twin to this axe. No exaggeration - the best tuba I've ever played. The sound has been described like a volume knob. Play something balls-out, then play the same thing soft, and it just sounds like someone turned down the volume. The character of the sound doesn't change at all. Unlike some BATs I've played that tub and woof out when played soft, this thing never changes. No work at all to play this horn. Perfect intonation, totally even response from top to bottom.

Yes, according to the reps, very handmade. Brass is hand-formed around wooden shapes. Made in pairs, and I was told two a year (not four). Six-year waiting list, and they're being very selective about who gets them. After more players get to try this horn, I suspect that waiting list will grow considerably - it's that good. As to the price, all I can say is string players have it worse.

So that's that...

...Dave

Hey, Bandmaster - do you know anything more about J. Michael? The brand seems to be a division of the Japanese Mac Corporation. Who are they, and how long have they been in business, and how long have they made music instruments?

Isn't that big Holton BBb just a rebadged Yamaha YBB-321?

Chuck(G) wrote:Isn't that big Holton BBb just a rebadged Yamaha YBB-321?

Might be. Weril is stenciling horns for Holton, and they of course have their own YBB-321 derivative. I played both (the Holton and the Weril), and although I didn't think much of either, I wasn't thinking to look at shared/copied design. Layout's very similar, so there might be a fair amount of cross-breeding going on...

...Dave

poomshanka wrote:

Chuck(G) wrote:Isn't that big Holton BBb just a rebadged Yamaha YBB-321?

Might be. Weril is stenciling horns for Holton, and they of course have their own YBB-321 derivative. I played both (the Holton and the Weril), and although I didn't think much of either, I wasn't thinking to look at shared/copied design. Layout's very similar, so there might be a fair amount of cross-breeding going on...

...Dave

Holton:

Key: BBb
Bore: 18.54 mm (.730â€

iiipopes wrote:Hey, Bandmaster - do you know anything more about J. Michael? The brand seems to be a division of the Japanese Mac Corporation. Who are they, and how long have they been in business, and how long have they made music instruments?

What I was told is that they have been in business for around 50 years and have been selling musical instruments now for 5 years. They get their instruments through the Mac Corporation, which is a Japanese company. The Mac Corp. chooses the instrument design and contracts with different factories in China to do the manufacturing. The horns are to made to their specs. I am not sure what tuba this one is a copy of, if it is a copy at all, but it plays really nice! I had a "Sanders Custom" tuba for a couple of years and it was a copy of the Miraphone 191. It played good except for a problem with "popping" when sluring. This little horn does NOT have the same problem and appears to made by the same factory, the braces and other small details give me the hint that it is. I did talk to them about beefing up a couple braces on the horn, since I had trouble with a couple on my Sanders. They were very interested in my opinions.

I dragged a friend over to their booth later in the day on Sunday (their booth was way over in the corner about as far away as you could get) and he really liked this horn too. He is working with another manufacturer with the development of their tubas and I ran into him at their booth. In fact, when I left he was sitting down with them and was trying to work a deal to be a distributor for their tubas. He was that impressed.

trseaman wrote:Dave, I didn't know you were going... I would have went with you!

Sorry Tim, I didn't even know if was going to go until Saturday night. It was a very last minute decision. I had it in my head the the show was this week, until another friend reminded me about during a phone Saturday night.

sbring wrote:

Bandmaster wrote:I had a "Sanders Custom" tuba for a couple of years and it was a copy of the Miraphone 191. It played good except for a problem with "popping" when sluring.

I have this very problem on one of my tubas. What might cause it?

Sven

I couldn't figure it out, that's why I sold it. I had the valves vented thinking that would help, but it only marginally helped. The second valve popped very noticably and it made it hard to play slurred passages cleanly. I asked around and could find any answers that made any sense.

Chuck(G) wrote:Isn't that big Holton BBb just a rebadged Yamaha YBB-321?

They sure do look the same to me. I can't make out the inscription on the Holton, but if it's a "Collegiate" model, then yes - they're being stenciled by Weril.

And again, for that matter, Bach piston low brass also looks like stencil Yamaha. Compare the tubas, especially!

Are Kanstul and King the only domestic US producers of tubas?

Sigh. With the way US manufacturing is going, I suspect that this will soon be the Ford Camel:

Here's a GREAT report from NAMM:

http://forum.samburtis.com/viewtopic.ph ... hlight=url

Are Kanstul and King the only domestic US producers of tubas?

The "Big 3" are going in on a joint venture to make tubas. Fischer Body will make the majority of it; Chrysler will produce the "Hemi" valves.

And Ford will add some component that will eventually burst into flames.