Language

Chris Horsch · Post by **Chris Horsch** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:35 am

What might a "Tuba en si bemol" be? There is an acute accent mark over the "e" in "bemol."

Kevin Hendrick · Post by **Kevin Hendrick** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 9:46 am

Chris Horsch wrote:What might a "Tuba en si bemol" be? There is an acute accent mark over the "e" in "bemol."

My best guess would be "Tuba in B flat".

iiipopes · Post by **iiipopes** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:40 am

Indeed. The French use the sol - fa system of describing their instruments rather than letters.

corbasse · Post by **corbasse** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:25 am

It's Tuba in B flat.
Beware!!
Here and in France the word tuba is most often used to indicate a tenor tuba (euphonium, baritone), and what we call tuba is refered to as tuba basse (or bombardon in old scores)

Furthermore there is a tendency to write transposed parts....

Be sure to check carefully what instrument they mean exactly....

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:46 pm

Tuba en si bemol is half the size of a BBb tuba. It's either a baritone horn or euphonium. It'a an old French tuba pitched in B-flat. The music is transposed along B-flat trumpet guidelines although it is written in bass clef (possibly tenor clef, but doubtful).

I am quite sure of this.

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 5:56 pm

The following site shows the "tuba Sib" as a Bb basstuba (eg Conn 22j). Quite remarkable is the frequent use (not so much on this site) of "soubassophone", known to us as sousaphone. It has a "pavillon" of some 26 pousses (thumbs/inches). At the other end of the "souba" one finds the embouchure, which is not part of the player but just the mouthpiece. The list also shows a few "basses" that seem to be in the euphonium range.
Maybe the terminology on this site is slightly influenced by the taste of the owner, who is obviously a lover of US brass.

JB · Post by JB » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:03 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:Tuba en si bemol is half the size of a BBb tuba. It's either a baritone horn or euphonium. It'a an old French tuba pitched in B-flat. The music is transposed along B-flat trumpet guidelines although it is written in bass clef (possibly tenor clef, but doubtful).

I am quite sure of this.

Would you be referring to the designation often seen in French music (especially like that published by Alphonse LeDuc) of the Saxhorn basse Si b?

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 6:32 pm

It depends.

http://www.wassermansons.fr/achat/produ ... .php?id=12

Like any other language French (and for that matter Spanish, which uses a similar terminology) changes over time. "Tuba en si bÃ©mol" today usually refers to the familiar BBb tuba. However-

"Tuba basse en si bÃ©mol" refers to the tenor variety
"Tuba contrebasse en si bÃ©mol" refers to the big boy.

Sometimes seen, but not too common:

"Petit tuba en si bÃ©mol" - is a euphonium
"Gros tuba en si bÃ©mol" - is a BBb tuba

If the range isn't specified and is a modern work, I'd go with the BBb meaning, particularly after I'd seen the part. e.g.,

http://pageperso.aol.fr/freemuzix/avord/avord.htm

In Spanish, as far as I know "tuba en si bemol" always refers to the BBb beast.

JB · Post by JB » Mon Jan 30, 2006 7:22 pm

bloke wrote:JB,

It's time you had an avatar:

<img src="http://i1.tinypic.com/mvje3a.jpg">

...and its time I had a drink!

Thanks. I'll give it a try. (Although I do have a preference for Jameson Irish Whiskey.)

Dutch · Post by **Dutch** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:14 am

[quote="Dutch"]The following site shows the "tuba Sib" as a Bb basstuba (eg Conn 22j). Quite remarkable is the frequent use (not so much on this site) of "soubassophone", known to us as sousaphone. It has a "pavillon" of some 26 pousses (thumbs/inches). At the other end of the "souba" one finds the embouchure, which is not part of the player but just the mouthpiece. The list also shows a few "basses" that seem to be in the euphonium range.
Maybe the terminology on this site is slightly influenced by the taste of the owner, who is obviously a lover of US brass.[/quote]

here is the missing link:
http://www.coste-musique.fr/main.php3?page=cuivres.php3

LoyalTubist · Post by **LoyalTubist** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:27 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:Tuba en si bemol is half the size of a BBb tuba. It's either a baritone horn or euphonium. It'a an old French tuba pitched in B-flat. The music is transposed along B-flat trumpet guidelines although it is written in bass clef (possibly tenor clef, but doubtful).

I am quite sure of this.

My information is current as of May 1966.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:27 pm

LoyalTubist wrote:My information is current as of May 1966.

Unfortunately, that was a decade short of a half-century ago. I'd venture that very few modern French composers are even aware of the little French teakettle tuba--although my turn-of-the 20th-century literature seems to refer to the 5- and 6-vave baby tuba in C as "tuba en ut" and the Bb saxhorn as "Basse in si bÃ©mol".

But modern usage seems to indicate that in French "tuba" means about what it means in most other languages.

corbasse · Post by **corbasse** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:29 am

Every musician here* still uses the word tuba to indicate the Bb (not Eb or BBb) variety.

It's not France, but it's only a couple of miles to the border

*(Apart from the very few symphonic tubists with international experience)

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:46 am

valtuba wrote:If you meet a french and you say "I play euphonium" the guy would say "ha, the little tuba!"........

Well, it's much better than, "what?"

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