Pronunciation: Koetsier
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:45 pm
As in Jan Koetsier, the Dutch conductor/composer.
Thanks!
EO
Thanks!
EO
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Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:00 pm
I've always heard it pronounced KOOT-see-ay, but now that you mention it, I'm not terrible sure what is correct. Surely there exists someone on this noble forum that can set us all straight???!!!
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:11 pm
"Throatwarbler Mangrove"
(The "y" is silent as in "Ford")
(The "y" is silent as in "Ford")
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 7:25 pm
Good question; for the most part I have heard "COAT - see - ay" but one stubborn Northern European pianist (Danish, Dutch, something or other) insisted to me that it was pronounced "coat - SEAR." I think it means "coachman" or "coachmen" in that language.
(I can tell you he was "bad with the war," which means -- when described in this way by his fellow countrymen, that he supported the Nazis during WWII. Not a popular move on his part.
)
However, now that I ponder this, probably a strong case could also be made for ""Throatwarbler Mangrove." 
Why doesn't someone phone Klaus -- or at least alert him to this pole; surely he would be more likely to have a "real" answer to this.
(I can tell you he was "bad with the war," which means -- when described in this way by his fellow countrymen, that he supported the Nazis during WWII. Not a popular move on his part.
) However, now that I ponder this, probably a strong case could also be made for ""Throatwarbler Mangrove." Why doesn't someone phone Klaus -- or at least alert him to this pole; surely he would be more likely to have a "real" answer to this.Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:56 pm
bloke wrote:...you rang...??
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:16 am
At the risk of coming too close to seriousness and spoiling the fun for everybody:
In German we have the phenomenon of a "Dehnungs-e" "Stretching e", positioned after a vowel to indicate that it is supposed to sound longer. Example: I as in "bit" vs. I as in "beat". (I´m using English examples here so you know the pronunciation right away)
All over Germany, this use is restricted to the combination with "I", in all other cases, (ae,oe,ue) the e produces the "Umlaut" sound as in Bear vs. Bar.
Except, of course, for a region to the northwest (bordering to the Netherlands). You should be conscious to use Ä,Ö,and Ü in scriptup there, because in Niederrhein and Münsterland the e stretches ANY vowel.
City names like Coesfeld, Kevelaer etc. should be read that way. In the Netherlands, names written like that are common.
To sum it up: more likely than not, the letters "e" in Koetsier both are used to stretch the vowels. "Coat Sear" is my bet.
In German we have the phenomenon of a "Dehnungs-e" "Stretching e", positioned after a vowel to indicate that it is supposed to sound longer. Example: I as in "bit" vs. I as in "beat". (I´m using English examples here so you know the pronunciation right away)
All over Germany, this use is restricted to the combination with "I", in all other cases, (ae,oe,ue) the e produces the "Umlaut" sound as in Bear vs. Bar.
Except, of course, for a region to the northwest (bordering to the Netherlands). You should be conscious to use Ä,Ö,and Ü in scriptup there, because in Niederrhein and Münsterland the e stretches ANY vowel.
City names like Coesfeld, Kevelaer etc. should be read that way. In the Netherlands, names written like that are common.
To sum it up: more likely than not, the letters "e" in Koetsier both are used to stretch the vowels. "Coat Sear" is my bet.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:36 am
OK, this one is from a native Dutch speaker:
The stress is on the Sier part of the name. The ie is pronounced as ee in English. The R is normally a rolled r as the Spanish use (although in modern day Holland an American R of Elmer Fudd like proportions is getting common)
The oe vowel is pronounced OO
So, to ewes yore impossible and sometimes amusing phonethic writing, it's pronounced:
coot-SEER
(by the way, most vowels in Dutch tend to be quite short)
[edit] I realized that the ee sound can be interpreted a lot of differtent ways in English.
I meant the EE as in green or see (or sea..
)
The stress is on the Sier part of the name. The ie is pronounced as ee in English. The R is normally a rolled r as the Spanish use (although in modern day Holland an American R of Elmer Fudd like proportions is getting common)
The oe vowel is pronounced OO
So, to ewes yore impossible and sometimes amusing phonethic writing, it's pronounced:
coot-SEER
(by the way, most vowels in Dutch tend to be quite short)
[edit] I realized that the ee sound can be interpreted a lot of differtent ways in English.
I meant the EE as in green or see (or sea..
)Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 6:53 am
I stand corrected. 
Except for the pronunciation of Mr. Koetsier´s name, the rest of my story about northwest-German vowel specialties is true, though.
Now let´s not forget about the use of I-combinations as in "Voigt" or "Duisburg"
I just love language. Everything is so assuringly inconsequent.
Except for the pronunciation of Mr. Koetsier´s name, the rest of my story about northwest-German vowel specialties is true, though.
Now let´s not forget about the use of I-combinations as in "Voigt" or "Duisburg"
I just love language. Everything is so assuringly inconsequent.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:00 am
In Dutch an e after a vowel does indicate it is streched. (but it's still quite short for foreign ears)tubeast wrote:I stand corrected.
Except for the pronunciation of Mr. Koetsier´s name, the rest of my story about northwest-German vowel specialties is true, though.
Now let´s not forget about the use of I-combinations as in "Voigt" or "Duisburg"
I just love language. Everything is so assuringly inconsequent.
Only 2 problems:
1) "official" Dutch pronounciation has changed over time, most notably a shift from (in English phonetics) ee to ay but to a lesser extent also from ow (as in grow) to oo.
and
2) the vowel is not necesarily the same as in German. (our u is pronounced as your ü or y, and oe is not pronounced as your ö but as your u. Your ö is written eu. I could go on.....)
We also have a few unique and difficult to pronounce vowels. I fondly remember the countless merry times I've had sitting in a tram in Amsterdam when some foreigner tries to ask directions to 'Spui'*
* the ui is the same tongue-twisting sound as the French word 'oeuil'
Koetsier
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:18 am
corbasse wrote:
coot-SEER
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:21 am
@sjra
Moeilijk voor Amerikaans mensen
Groetjes
Ulli from Aken
(Difficult for American peoples)
Moeilijk voor Amerikaans mensen
Groetjes
Ulli from Aken
(Difficult for American peoples)
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:27 am
I spoke with a woman from the local Dutch-Canadian Shop this morning, and this is the pronounciation she provided as well.corbasse wrote: coot-SEER
Now when people ask me what I'm playing on this term's recital I won't have to say "Hindemith, Marcello, and Ko-mumble- mumble"
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 10:42 am
Well, She'd better!Erin wrote:I spoke with a woman from the local Dutch-Canadian Shop this morning, and this is the pronounciation she provided as well.corbasse wrote: coot-SEER
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:04 pm
Erin wrote:Now when people ask me what I'm playing on this term's recital I won't have to say "Hindemith, Marcello, and Ko-mumble- mumble"corbasse wrote: coot-SEER
Just so long as you don't mumble your way through the pieces!! 
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:08 pm
And we Americans sure have fun when we say foreign words.tubeast wrote:
I just love language. Everything is so assuringly inconsequent.
• Löwenbräu
• Bei mir bist Du schön.
• Danke schön.
• Jalapeños
• ã
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 7:33 pm
As long as I have someone backstage to remind me which end of the horn to blow into, I'll probably be okay.JB wrote:
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 8:52 pm
And if you don't, just wear some very gauche striped socks with your gown to detract attention away from the fact that you're blowing in the big end!Erin wrote:As long as I have someone backstage to remind me which end of the horn to blow into, I'll probably be okay.JB wrote:
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:48 pm
Does anybody know what nonsense this guy is talking about?JB wrote:And if you don't, just wear some very gauche striped socks with your gown to detract attention away from the fact that you're blowing in the big end!
Perhaps it's time JB retires to a rocking chair in the old tuba players' home.
Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:20 am
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 3:22 am
I find it amusing and worrying at the same time that people continued to vote for completely the wrong, French pronounciation after a native speaker already gave the right way to pronounce it...