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What has astounded me is the number of complements on its sound I have received. A professional musician in the audience at that concert comment on how much it improved the bass and brass sound of the orchestra.

Now you know.........

If you're going to play in a big ole orchestra, I guess you need a big ole tuba. People who could not hear you so well on your Eb are getting more low vibrations- maybe with a more pleasing tone -as the feedback seems to indicate.
I am told orchestras are louder these days and a bigger, badder tuba must help.
I play Eb tuba in a rock band. I am always miked and with an 1,800 watt P.A., volume is not a problem. I am an old guy and a bigger tuba would probably sound richer but I don't need the weight.

Jonathantuba wrote:Being a British player...

The British exclusive (or nearly so) use of the Eb Sovereign for orchestra is, of course, a relatively recent practice. Bevan includes a picture of George Wall playing an Alexander kaiser tuba (in BBb), and we all know that Fletcher played a 6/4 Holton CC in the orchestra on frequent occasions. So, Jonathon, you should see some footsteps in front of you, even in that soft British soil.

But the BAT movement has been a movement in the U.S., too. I would venture that the most prized orchestral tuba in the middle 70's and going back from there was the Alexander 163.

I remember when Mike Sanders bought his Yorkbrunner. As a San Antonio Symphony regular attender, I was quite accustomed to his sound on his Alex. It was a powerful sound, full of energy and aggression. Most impressive. I made me want to study with him despite that I was not in a position to expect more than a music-store teacher.

The first time I heard him with the Yorkbrunner, I was blown away. From my sit in the (literally) last row of the mezzanine of a 3000-seat auditorium, the tuba had a complexity and personality in the sound I hadn't heard before. The difference glowed in the dark. Mike tells several stories about the changeover, including one where he had the opportunity to play his old Alex during a rehearsal with the St. Louis Symphony. His stories talked of viola players literally turning in their seats to see what the difference was. There was nothing subtle here.

At the opposite end of the talent spectrum where I live, I can say that the Holton's difference from the Miraphone or the York Master falls into the same category. I have a recording of the band playing Holst's Children's March, where I played the bass solo at the end of the work. The Holton was friendly and lively in comparison to the recordings I've heard of myself with my other tubas. Again, nothing subtle at all.

Obviously, Mike Sanders always sounds like Mike Sanders no matter what he plays, just as whatever I play will be limited by sounding like me. But within the domain--rick's sound--there is a lot of room for the effect of the instrument.

A final comment: It takes a big and resonant room for a big tuba to reach its potential. In my living room, it's hard to tell the difference between my Holton and my B&S F tuba on some notes. When I compared my Holton to several other BAT's when I picked it up after a cleaning at Baltimore Brass, however, the difference even between those similar instruments was obvious enough that my wife could hear it clearly.

Rick "who thinks the challenge for the big tubas is to avoid getting woofy" Denney

You know, you can play a BAT just as softly as you can play the Sov. Everyone forgets that. With the BAT, you have a broader range of dynamics and color to work with. Like you have discovered, it is only overbearing if you make it so. Otherwise, it is a wonderful instrument. Congratulations!

The biggest BAT problem seems to be articulation. Many players end up with a flugelhorn sound that doesn't ever REALLY start...it just sort of happens. It feels nice around you, but 35 rows back, it sounds like "woof." That, of course, is not everyone, but I hear it frequently. There seems to be a trend away from those horns, now anyhow, and a move back to a more aggressive, projecting sound that comes from a 4/4 horn. Never fear, though; just like old ties and sport coats, the trend will return, and return again! Hold on to those heavy mouthpieces, too...just in case!

You know, you can play a BAT just as softly as you can play the Sov. Everyone forgets that. With the BAT, you have a broader range of dynamics and color to work with. Like you have discovered, it is only overbearing if you make it so. Otherwise, it is a wonderful instrument. Congratulations![/quote]

I basically agree with this,but,on my holton,the wooooo wooooo tone quality happens at the soft dynamic levels.I am very pleased with the character in the sound at mf and above(especially above).I was considering downsizing to a pt6 until i heard our orchestra's recording of Rach.2nd Symph.I'm just not ready to give up the ability to make that sound. Maybe a 4th horn is in order

Have you ever tried a larger Eb tuba in the orchestra? A conn monster Eb, for instance, has a tone and volume more akin to an orchestral tuba than you might expect from a woefully obsolete band instrument.

-Eric

From the time I added a CC to the F, our conductor frequently asks me to use either horn according to the occasion.
Whenever we´re playing in church (Main winter concert and occasional services), I am to bring the CC, and the section toggles parts so I get to play the low end .

Lighter, more cheerful literature usually calls for the F, and the CC seems out of place.

I assume if we played symphonic band literature exclusively, I might as well sell my F horn, because all it would get to do is collect dust.
What I do think, though: this is to a great extent an effect of a "bigger is better" approach, and part of this may have its origin in modern literature for symph. band.
There is no delicate playing in these works, or so it seems.
I´m sure most of you will be able to point out pieces that show the opposite, but more often than not, I´m supposed to provide one of these two:
either massive, powerful sounds or what we call an "overtone plant" (referring to a line of "chinmneys" in the back of the band ), playing soft, low notes as broad and rich as possible.

This may be totally different in orchestra, but Jonathan´s observations actually point towards the same direction.

Because of the parts one is reqired to play, an orchestral player must have a wide arsenal, and I consider a CC BAT one of the indespensable weapons you need. I found that I could use a big horn more often, and in more circumstanses, if you apply a shallower mouthpiece to compensate for the fumbling articulation tendancy. The full power is still there, but the sound a little brighter at lower dynamics, and the response is much improved.

This does not negate the need for an Eb/F for some pieces, and a smaller CC, but it sounds like, as they say, "now you're cookin' with gas!" and used properly, there's nothing like it!