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Mike,

For the casual player - I wouldn't spend the $ for a huge compensator. There just isn't a need to shell out 4K for a horn when you could do much less. I would get a Yamaha 321. Good horn, you might even be able to find a nice used one for about $1000. Good horn - good intonation, and nice price.

I played on one of these before stepping up when I got serious about music in college. I still play it every-now-and-then for a change.

- Pat Stuckemeyer

mike-j-g wrote:I don't want to waste money buying more horn than I need.

I'm not a big fan of compensating horns but buying a 3 + 1 horn is something I don't think you will ever regret. You will find yourself using that 4th valve for things other than just playing low.

I was in a similar situation a year ago and ended up with a Yamaha 321. I recommend getting the 4th valve, it will be used more than you'd think. You could also consider Weril (cheaper) or the King 2280, or ....

The music we play in the Placentia and Fullerton College community bands go below Gb/F# (you're TC right?). The F below that is too sharp with 14 and too flat with 124, very noticable. I've resorted to pulling the 4th slide about 2 inches and playing the F with 14. With this tuning and some creative fingerings the 321 is in reasonable tune except C# (1/2 step above pedal) is not playable. I have encountered the low C# (concert B nat) in music we play.

A full comp euph would be nice but a decent one is nearly twice the price.

I would echo those before, you probably do not need a compensating horn... I do not know if any of us really NEED one. A four valve horn, though, is awfully convenient. Using 4 instead of 1-3 does help with intonation. Using 2-4 instead of 1-2-3 is better without question. The Yamaha 321 (and the Holton copy of it) are standard fare for 4 upright valves. But I like the Weril better. It has a large trombone size receiver and comes in less than 1K. The cases are great, as well. I have two H.S. students who have had theirs for years and they seem to hold up VERY well.

Good luck and welcome back!

But you certainly WILL be able to use the 4th valve -- even if it isn't compensated. As before Yamaha YEP-321, the King 2280, or the Weril copy of the Yamaha are very solid, intermediate level horns. I found a King 2280 for about $850 on eBay a year ago, silver plate, in good condition, for a price point. Yes the pro model compensating horns are better, but these intermediate level horns are a very respectable starting point and not as expensive.

Go for four,
not just three;
the extra tubing,
let it be!

Cheers,

Even if you only get a three-valve comp, at least the low notes you can get down to 123 combination (E natural below the staff for bass clef, F sharp below the staff treble clef) will all be relatively in tune, albeit a little stuffy, without the gyrations of extreme lipping or slide pulling.

I am some one who is also just getting back in to playing after many years (20 + ) of not playing . I wanted to buy a horn and came up with the same question as you are now asking . I eventually decided against a compensating and bought a Yamaha 321 clone . A Weril H980S . It is a 4valve non-compensating horn .My decision was based on the fact that I felt that a compensating system would be wasted on me as an amature playing in a community band .

I recently got into a conversation with several members here about weither or not it would be worth it for me to eventually move up to a compensating horn given my situation . The folks I talked to were professsional musicians and graduate level students . There answers were the same . They all said yes . Their reason was that the better intonation achieved by useing a comp. horn would help to improve the group . I trust their opinion to be true .

The music I play generally never goes into pedal tones or above a Bb ( above the staff-bassclef ). It is usually in the standard range for the horn . However I do feel that using a 4 valve horn is much better than a 3 valve horn . There are notes on the 4 valve that are not on the 3valve in the lower register . Our director has started to bring in more traditonal band music and our range is slowly starting to widen . The fourth valve is coming into play more often now .

If you looking for horn recommendations I suggest the Weril H980S . It is a fine stencil of the Yamaha 321 at half the price and has a large shank reciever . The intonation is very good for an intermediate horn and the tone is nice and mellow . Weril is a good solid horn for the money and is still selling for $1,300 ( silver finish ) at the place I bought mine last year . The Yamaha has almost doubled in price since Jan. 2005 .

For a start: as most here already stated, I DO think you will benefit from a superior horn, be it 4-valved or compensated.
As to the "get sompin´ cheap n´simple first, you can upgrade later"-thing: I don´t think so. This is the right thing to do if you don´t know for sure you´ll stick with it. As a grown-up buying your personal horn, you´ll probably have made up your mind about that already.

In all other cases: I´d make up my mind about the kind of budget I want to invest in my hobby, and get the best equipment I possibly can. If there´s a superior horn that exceeds that budged by a little, I won´t hesitate to shell that out, too.
I always take into account that I´ll need TIME to shop for a horn, and to me, my spare time is worth AT LEAST what my labour time is worth to my employer. (Seeking available horns, driving to and fro testing sessions etc. might amount to DAYS worth of time. Don´t forget the time you need to sell the OLD horn). Multiply those hours by your brutto wages, and you get how much you might be willing to invest into a horn you´d think to buy as a step-up.
And there´s nothing more unmotivating than a horn that puts limits to your playing.

Good luck with your new found hobby Mike.

I got back into playing euph about 6 years ago after 33 years of not playing. I started with a 3-valve horn, but was frustrated with it's intonation (albeit some of the problem was with me, ). Since I was sure I was going to stick with it, I found a Yamaha-641S compensator used on ebay about 5 years ago. I lucked out in getting a pretty good horn - but probably paid a bit too much for it. For me, it was worth getting a pro horn even though I'm just an amateur. I knew I wanted 4 valves, but also knew that my right pinky is almost useless (can't move it without ring-finger also moving). I now play in 2 comm bands in which I'm the section leader. I practice every day trying to improve. The tone on a bigger bore horn is so much better in my opinion.

Good luck.