Bass bone mouthpiece for tuba player

[MartyNeilan]

Got a Griego .5 Deco this week. This is a MUCH better alternative to the "small tuba mouthpiece with turned down shank" approach that many tuba players try to use. As a tuba player who doubles on bass trombone, I was looking for a large comfortable mouthpiece that won't screw with my tuba chops but will still sound like a trombone mouthpiece and have a non-woofy high register. I think I have finally found it. VERY comfortable, very big mouthpiece but huge dark sound with enough core and focus to it. Any bigger would be overkill, but its just right for my full lips. Some guys around here play the .75, just a hair smaller but still big sound. A friend of mine who just got a Doug Elliot setup tried it this morning, and he sounded even better on it in the low register than the DE. (He also sounded better on it then I do, but that's another story entirely :frown: ) Now if I could only find a few extra hours to practice bass bone every day instead of the usual few hours per week...
FWIW, I have previously used the Yamaha Doug Yeo (minimal but still slight affect on tuba chops and slightly woofy high register - I don't practice 10 hrs a day like DY; and the Schilke 59 - more centered sound but much greater impact on tuba chops because of cup diameter and rim contour)
http://www.griegomouthpieces.com/ direct
http://www.sheridanbrass.com/ dealer, Newell is a great guy to talk to[/url]

[JB]

Got a Griego .5 Deco this week. This is a MUCH better alternative to the "small tuba mouthpiece with turned down shank" approach that many tuba players try to use. As a tuba player who doubles on bass trombone, I was looking for a large comfortable mouthpiece that won't screw with my tuba chops but will still sound like a trombone mouthpiece and have a non-woofy high register.

Mr. Neilan:

Have you tried this mp on euphonium as well -- think it would be equally successful? (Or, if not actually "test-diven" on euph, perhaps offer an opinion based on your trombone results?)

I would like to find a mp that offers the same qualities you have described above, except for use by a tubist with euphonium (rather than bass trombone).

Thank you.

[Jeff Miller]

When I'm playing bass trombone, I use either Doug Elliot K cup with a 114 rim or a Bach 1/2GM (like a 1/2G with a slightly funnelised throat). I tend to use the DE for orchestral stuff and Bach for any big band or chamber music stuff that I do.

I spent years trying out the various things like tuba rim/trombone cup, etc, and decided that I found it easiest to sound like a trombonist when I used a trombone mouthpiece. I then tried a bunch of biggish stuff like a Shilke 60 and a 59, etc.

I realised that a tuba player playing trombone will tend to have a woofy, uncentered sound. The only ways I could combat this were to speed up my air (bad) or use a smaller mouthpiece and let Mr Bernoulli do it for me (good), so I now use the stuff I mentioned above.

Also, since it's so different to my tuba mouthpiece, I really don't notice any difference. When I'm holding a trombone, I'm a trombone player; when I am holding a tuba, I'm a tuba player.

Jeff

[ken k]

How do these Griego mouthpieces compare in size to the schilke 59 or Doug Yeo model?

Are they bigger smaller, etc?

ken k

[MartyNeilan]

To attempt to answer these questions to the best of my limited ability (Christian Griego or Nowell Sheridan could probably do a better job):
The Griego .5 is about the size of a Schilke 60 but more comfortable and has a very workable high range, unlike the 60. The .75 is a hair smaller than the Yeo and a definitely a little smaller than a 60. The 1 is about a 59, give or take, but suppossedly more comfortable and with more core to the sound - I have not tried one.
I have not tried them on a Euph, but would have reservations unless I was trying to get a "tenor tuba" sound - they give the trombone a very dark yet focused sound with lots of core, so the effect on Euph may be too dark for some ears that prefer a lighter Euphonium sound.
These Griego mouthpieces have some very unique design features and I would encourage anyone to try them before passing judgement.

[JB]

im actually quite aprehensive to the idea of using a bass trombone mouth piece, i mean, they were designed for the bass trombone not the tuba!

Perhaps I misread, but thought the mouthpiece being described was for use on a bass trombone (by a tubist who doubles on that instrument).

[glangfur]

I'll add a couple of thoughts, as a bass trombone player learning to double on tuba.

First of all, Doug Yeo doesn't practice 10 hours a day. He tells his students they should be able to get all the practicing they need done in about 1.5 to 2 hours. Doug is very interested in doing everything efficiently. His mouthpiece works great for him and many other people. It does tend to be a little woofy in the high register as was mentioned, but not nearly as much as a Schilke 60.

Secondly, I abandoned the traditional skinny bass trombone rim years ago. It never really made sense to me, and wider rims just work better for me. I would think they would be MUCH more comfortable for a doubling tuba player, as well. There are a couple of stock mouthpieces available, including the Minick copies available from Steve Ferguson - www.steveferguson.net

I play the Ferguson LS, which is pretty large at the rim, but with a smaller cup volume and throat than the DY Yamaha. I think this would be a good one for you tuba players to try. I don't know what the rims of the Griegos are like. I used to play a Doug Elliott wide rim, and those work great. It's also easy to cut the rim off another mouthpiece and thread it for Doug Elliott's rims. Doug makes a couple of rims that are very large for full-time bass trombone playing but might work very well for a tuba doubler.

The other thing I'd like to add is not specifically about equipment. Bass trombone is an odd instrument, not really designed so much as evolved. You have to play a lot in the worst register of the instrument, playing low on a lot of straight cylindrical tubing. It's really an entirely different beast from tuba, which is really designed to have an excellent low range.

I'd like to suggest that the key to playing bass trombone successfully, once you've found the right equipment (which is certainly important), is to play lots and lots of long tones. If you have half an hour in which to practice bass trombone, you would do well to spend about 20 of those minutes playing long tones, striving for the most focused approach possible, starting with the aperture closed and working towards no shifting. Of course, you have to figure out the slide and practice being able to read on the instrument and all that, but time on long tones will be time well spent, and I think it will probably carry over very well to your tuba playing. It certainly carries over for me - there are a lot of things I don't do well yet on tuba, but I have a pretty easy time in the low register.

Finally, I have a question: I'm playing a Yamaha 66 mouthpiece on tuba right now. If I go any larger than that at the rim I start to lose focus and miss partials, but I definitely want to keep that Helleberg-type cup shape and depth. Are there any other mouthpieces I should look at of about that size?