TubeNet

With the recent news of Carol Jantsch, who is now designated to fill the Philadelphia Orchestra's Principal Tuba vacancy, what auditions are now left in North America? For the younger crowds that come to this site, the past few years have been somewhat of an abberration. The luxury of having two or three tuba auditions for major symphony positions are now a thing of the past. I can remember several years (Mid-80s and Early-90s) where there was not a single tuba position advertised in the International Musician. Coupled with the facts that Carol's success does not create another vacancy and that most symphony orchestra collective bargaining agreements have a normal retirement age of 65, there seems to be no auditions on the horizon.

What are all you folks, who do not have jobs, planning to do with your carreers?

CBA's have NO designated retirement age.

Even though I am not a paid performer, I think I can chime in here. Symphony Orchestras aren't the only (and in some individual's case, not the most desirable) way to make money on the horn. I would assume that for every symphony orchestra tubist, there are probably at least 10 others making cash from the horn in other ensembles.

-Wes "don't know why I felt the urge to respond to this thread, but I did anyway" T.

leehipp wrote:CBA's have NO designated retirement age.

There is a difference between "designation" and "normal retirement age". "Normal retirement age" to which I referred to in my original post is a contractual term that can be used to designate what age an employee is eligable for a maximum benefit. Early retirements have a reduced benefit.

Sorry that I did not delineate this earlier.

Why not be all that you can be!


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Joe Baker, who observes that a tuba player's odds of winning a major symphony job in the next few years have only SLIGHTLY decreased (from durn-near-zero to gawl-durn-near-zero).

Wes Jacobs, in Detroit Symphony is about 60 and Don Harry, in Buffalo Philharmonic is over 60, so both of those jobs should be opening up in the next couple years. I heard something about maybe Atlanta opening up as well...

Gator wrote:What are all you folks, who do not have jobs, planning to do with your carreers?

phoenix wrote:Wes Jacobs, in Detroit Symphony is about 60 and Don Harry, in Buffalo Philharmonic is over 60, so both of those jobs should be opening up in the next couple years. I heard something about maybe Atlanta opening up as well...

I think that any speculation about Mike Moore is unfounded. Mike is a relatively young man in good health who is still playing at a very high level. I would be inclined to say the same about the others mentioned, but am more familiar with the scene in Atlanta. I can imagine that all of these folks would find it unseemly that there is an entire group of people almost rooting for them to retire. I think that if you are inclined to be in this group, you might wish to be more discreet in your speculation.

I tend to agree that it seems like this "golden window" for orchestral tuba openings is closing. It will be up to all of us to be imaginative and industrious in creating new opportunities for performance. As artists, the need to reinvent ourselves is sometimes a matter of survival.

As a "middle-aged" tuba player who seems to have landed in my final destination, I am not content to stop growing as a musician and as a performer. In my mind, when you stop growing, you start dying. So, my immediate future is occupied with figuring out the "next big project".

So, even though we may start to see a dry period as far as orchestral openings go, it is up to all of us to roll up our sleeves and figure out a way to make our art relevant. A challenge? Yes! But it is a challenge that will prove to push those willing to work to achieve greater things.

You guys sound like a bunch of buzzards waiting for somebody to croak.
If you can't find a group to hire you, find a paying gig and you hire the people you want to work it.
Guitar-tuba makes a great duo and can earn grocery money in all but the smallest pubs. Do you know how great a tuba sounds in a country band?
Be flexible! Eat regularly!

Be flexible! Eat regularly!

The best advice I have seen on this board in many years.


Chuck"who refuses to suffer for ANY art"Jackson

Gator wrote:

...the past few years have been somewhat of an abberration. The luxury of having two or three tuba auditions for major symphony positions are now a thing of the past.

Indeed. Think of Micky Wrobleski, a monster tuba player, who has not been allowed to leave his position with the orchestra in China to participate in any of the recent major tuba auditions.

big_blue_tubist wrote:Symphony Orchestras aren't the only (and in some individual's case, not the most desirable) way to make money on the horn

True. But the musical experience of playing in a professional orchestra is a unique source of satisfaction for a tuba player. As Carol herself said in the Philadelphia Inquirer interview, the reason she likes playing tuba in an orchestra is,"I guess that I'm the only one and I can do my own thing, that I have a role all by myself."

One can play an independent part on tuba in small ensembles. One can play tuba in community orchestras, if there is an opening. But playing tuba with a major professional orchestra is an undenyable joy for many who love this instrument.

Meanwhile, Dave Zerkel, who was the runner-up to Carol (and therefore undoubtedly played extremely well in the Philadelphia Orchestra audition), wrote:

As a "middle-aged" tuba player who seems to have landed in my final destination, I am not content to stop growing as a musician and as a performer. In my mind, when you stop growing, you start dying. So, my immediate future is occupied with figuring out the "next big project".

What a class act Dave is. His words offer encouragement to all of us who love playing the tuba, at any level of proficiency.

I like tubatooter´s approach to this situation.
Related links (only one with tuba, but both with low brass):
http://www.globalkryner.at
http://www.palastorchester.de

two examples of quite successful and off-the-beaten-track groups. The latter made it to the movies, too, and even to tubenet (a few months ago, but I´m too lazy to provide a thread)
I think it´s time to quit thinking of the tuba as being "unusual" in popular music. There already is enough proof that the Big Horn is suitable in most (all) stiles. The less of a deal the musicians themselves make of it, the more accepted the tuba can be in popular (= commercially effective) music.

Joe Baker wrote:Why not be all that you can be!

That hurts.

WoodSheddin wrote:

Joe Baker wrote:Why not be all that you can be!

That hurts.

Sorry, it wasn't meant to. Upon reflection, this could come across as poking fun at the military tuba player; my intention was quite the opposite.

My point was, simply, that military bands are another possibility for the talented tuba player. Yes, many of those bands will require inordinate amounts of time to be spent with a sousaphone; but there are some (quite a few?? I really don't know how many) bands that do most of their work with lap tubas. Besides, even if one IS shouldering a sousa, it is an opportunity to (1) make a living (2) playing the tuba (3) with some very fine musicians. And the reality is that this has ALWAYS been the BEST odds of a regular paycheck for playing tuba.

My apologies to ANYONE who took offense. I assure you, none was intended.
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who probably shoulda butted out.

Joe, you're never gonna get elected talking that way!

Chuck(G) wrote:Joe, you're never gonna get elected talking that way!

Actually, Chuck, just between you and me -- I don't WANT to get elected. I just want to make a killing selling T-Shirts and bumper stickers:



Anybody dopey enough to VOTE for me ought to be an easy mark!
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Joe Baker, who hopes everyone else stopped reading where it said "just between you and me".

One of those two groups with links listed a bass trombone player but no tuba player.

One of those two groups with links listed a bass trombone player but no tuba player...

...as stated in the sentence before the links. But let´s not be too picky here...
The idea was : there ARE paying gigs out there for the creative musician, just as T´tooter1940 suggested. And it may be a great idea to come up with something unusual (preferrably including a tongue planted firmly in one´s cheek)that might appear strange to purists.
OTOH: I watched a recorder (errm, the flute thingy) player in ragged clothing playing in the streets, accompanied by a (cassette) recorder, a hat in front of him on the pavement. He performed STUNNINGLY technical stuff from the baroque era. probably a professionally trained musician. It was sad to see he received no more change than the plain ol´ beggar on the next block.

We can all learn something from Carol. The thing is that she got turned down to audition... then she FOUGHT and proved that she COULD NOT BE DENIED.


Carol's (and Dave's!) recent success in Philly should be seen by US ALL as a much needed fresh breath of optimism.

Actually these days, I've been placing much less emphasis on playing in orchestras. I still do the local per service rounds, but I really don't want to actively pursue a major orchestra. Given the politics about reputation and pedigree that lately have found their way into audition process, it not worth the headache.
IMHO...
The military bands offer the best and most reliable playing opportunities and benifits for today's tuba/euph players.
Until I can get one of those gigs, I'll stick with my college teaching position and to continue to play for whoever will have me.