TubeNet

I'm hoping to get a good argument to present to a quintet I've begun to play with.

Situation: I play a PT6 and feel confident that I can create a large amount of sound. With some luck I started playing with a very good quintet which happens to practice in the basement of one of the members. The room is probably 15x15, 8ft ceiling, carpet, sheet rock walls. I am absolutely blowing my nuts off (pardon the expression) and am being told that "they need more." I also play a small Eb with the same group and get the same thing (which makes sense).

When we do gigs which are in large or more accoustically live rooms, I am 100% certain it sounds like a tuba with a brass quartet, and I've received the "tone it down" glance from the first trumpet on several occasions -- which I promptly do. First question) What would be the best scientific argument to give them for the accoustical difference. 2) how do you convince them this is not a load of crap.

I can't say much about the acoustic issue because I'm not an expert. But since you're looking for a scientific argument, why not record the group in the small room, and record the group playing the same repertoire in a big room (with the same setup, to eliminate variables), and compare?
You could also play the recordings for your teacher or other players and ask their opinion.
Also, consider the possibility that they don't want "more" sound, but a different kind of sound - maybe brighter, maybe more fundamental, whatever - than what you are providing, and don't be too proud to ask for specific feedback.

Accoustics are different for every location and the problems must be dealt with most every time we set up in a new place. I played this long narrow cafe that resonated to C. Everytime I hit a C chord or sang a C the whole room began to ring like a bell. I'm glad I arrived early for a sound check because it took a while to find the combination on my E.Q. at the P.A. driver to diminish the C tone and have C chord on my guitar sound O.K.

I concur with the above. In addition to brass, I've played guitar and bass for (mumble) years. I was once in a group that had a drummer that, no matter how loud you turned it up, no matter how large a monitor or monitor amp you gave him, his bass drum was never loud enough. I could never get through his head the wavelength issue, that until you got to a substantial sized room there simply was no fundamental to develop, and all he was doing was getting a really expensive compression fan of air with his speakers, but oh, well. Believe me, when the rest of us walked a few dozen yards away, it was there!

So, just tell them it's not you, it's the room, and make them find a better room to rehearse.

horto008 wrote:First question) What would be the best scientific argument to give them for the accoustical difference. 2) how do you convince them this is not a load of crap.

Just tell them that the wavelength of a low C on your tuba is eight feet, starting from the top of the bell. Thus, the sound waves have to fold over themselves to even be heard in the small room, and the core of the sound cannot fully develop.

In my living room, which has a ceiling that is 14-16 feet above the bell of the tuba, my various instruments sound different until I play in the bottom half of the tuning octave and below. There, an F tuba sounds like a Holton to non-tuba-playing listeners. The core of the Holton sound is being cut out by the small room.

In a hall, however, the Holton's sound can develop properly, and its characteristic sound emerges. Big tubas like a PT-6 need the hall to do their thing. That's why we call that style of tuba a "grand orchestral" tuba (even though the PT-6 is probably on the small end of that range).

If you played a smaller instrument--one that in my humble opinion is more suited for quintet--you might find more consistency between your practice room and performance space.

Rick "who compares and evaluates instruments in a big room" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

horto008 wrote:First question) What would be the best scientific argument to give them for the accoustical difference. 2) how do you convince them this is not a load of crap.

Just tell them that the wavelength of a low C on your tuba is eight feet, starting from the top of the bell. Thus, the sound waves have to fold over themselves to even be heard in the small room, and the core of the sound cannot fully develop.

...

If you played a smaller instrument--one that in my humble opinion is more suited for quintet--you might find more consistency between your practice room and performance space.

Rick "who compares and evaluates instruments in a big room" Denney

How would usinng a smaller instrument change the wavelength of a low C?

Try a bellfront.

sloan wrote:How would usinng a smaller instrument change the wavelength of a low C?

It would change the importance of the bottom couple of overtones in the mix. And it would diminish the unexpected growth in sound in the large room.

Rick "hoping Sloan goes back to his poker before issuing more difficult challenges" Denney

bloke wrote:

Rick "hoping Sloan goes back to his poker before issuing more difficult challenges" Denney

If, as you say, Dr. Sloan is a poker player, then surely (having read his posts over the years and greatly respecting his brinksmanship) the "job" thing must be "just for fun".

Career advice: Find out what you want to do for fun, 24/7. Work at it. If you are any good, *someone* will pay you to do it.

bloke wrote:...speaking of which, I have found that it is quite difficult to practice playing my tuba in a room that is smaller than 36" X 36" X 36"

I have a lovely YBB-621S that might fit.

Have you recorded your basement rehearsals?