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DP wrote:"Why play BBflat tuba"?

Because it is there.

Cause that's what key my sousaphone came in. For a tuba now, that's another story.
Peace.
ASG

'cause Bb is all I've ever played & all I'll probably ever play -- I'm too old to change now.

1) It's the only key I could find a 3-valve compensator, and
2) It's the only key I could find a souzy for outdoors, and
3) All 5-valve CC tubas (well, all non-compensating tubas for that matter) must be lipped or manually compensated on most valve combinations, and if I wanted to pull valve slides, I'd play trombone instead.

Is it safe to say that most of us played Bb to begin with? Unless there is a major change in the way music is written, why wouldn't we continue to play Bb???

My $.02 of course...

Tim

I started on Eb tuba and switched to BBb in 8th grade. I loved the rich sound I could get below the staff on a BBb tuba. Since then I have owned several different instruments, including an F tuba and a CC. I discovered that I could not play any higher on the smaller horns, but I did sound a lot worse in the low register on the smaller horns. So I sold them and chose to stick with the BBb.
I read somewhere that CC tubas came into use in orchestras so that the tubists could more easily match the intonation quirks of the C trumpets. That could be true; those trumpet player use C trumpets so they won't have to transpose.
Don Stauffer wrote that CC tubas are used because there are quite a few high E's in the orchestra tuba literature, and that note is not easy on a BBb tuba. Walter Sear pointed out that there are also a lot of low F's (4th ledger line) in the literature, and that note sounds a lot better (for most of us) on a BBb tuba.
As for the nimbleness issue, I am reminded of what Harold Brasch had to say when students wanted to use short-action valves so they could play fast: "Oh? You can play fast?" (He could play twice as fast on his long-stroke Besson pistons.)
I have been searching the orchestra literature for years trying to find a part that requires nimbleness, but have not found it yet. Seems to me that the orchestra parts require huge range and huge dynamic contrasts, but not much nimbleness. That's why rotary valves are popular in orchestras.

DP wrote:"Why play BBflat tuba"?

Mostly: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
_________________________
Joe Baker, who admits that if $$$$$$$ weren't an issue, laziness would still probably dictate BBb.

trseaman wrote:Is it safe to say that most of us played Bb to begin with? Unless there is a major change in the way music is written, why wouldn't we continue to play Bb???

I started on Eb and was ridiculed for it. Honest.

I don't much care what I play on, as long as it fits the work.

But should a college freshman music major dump his otherwise very nice BBb for a CC because he'll need a "serious" tuba for school?

Wonder how the same kid would do on his CC if someone shoved a Bb bass brass band part under his nose?

Chuck(G) wrote:Wonder how the same kid would do on his CC if someone shoved a Bb bass brass band part under his nose?

That would be a problem. But it's the same problem when you play BBb and see a BBB part for the first time (for the first time since you used to be a 7th grade trumpet player, before you switched to tuba....).

Now for the Eb tubists -- bring on the brass band music! I can play 'em with three flats tied behind my back!

Cheers,

DP wrote:"Why play BBflat tuba"?

Because it's much cheaper and I already know the fingerings.

Rick "who thinks 'why not' is good justification for those who have the scratch" Denney

Art Hovey wrote:I have been searching the orchestra literature for years trying to find a part that requires nimbleness, but have not found it yet. Seems to me that the orchestra parts require huge range and huge dynamic contrasts, but not much nimbleness. That's why rotary valves are popular in orchestras.

Go look at the tuba part to the Vaughan Williams 4th Symphony. That one makes pretty good use of nimbleness, heh, heh.

Rick "agreeing on all counts, however" Denney

diek01 wrote:you know... you could just lip everything on your BBb upa whole step and you'd have a CC..., that is... if your lips are flexible enough

I once made a joke on the old Tubenet that I had a C tuba with many intonation quirks. I found I could play it nicely in tune by using open for the low Bb, 4 for the C, 1-2 for the D, etc.

I had to explain it before anyone got the joke.

Rick "whose 'CC' tuba requires a lot of alternate fingerings" Denney

It is less expensive, but also, more into with its section mates. Trombone and euphonium are both Bb, and it is easier to keep them tubed with a BBb than with a CC (or keep the tuba tuned to them). But thats why its used for wind ensembles

Albertibass wrote:It is less expensive, but also, more into with its section mates. Trombone and euphonium are both Bb, and it is easier to keep them tubed with a BBb than with a CC (or keep the tuba tuned to them). But thats why its used for wind ensembles

Which professional wind ensembles use Bb tubas?

The premier military bands don't. The professional pickup bands don't. Most of the tuba players in college wind ensembles don't.

I've never noticed them having trouble playing in tune with the trombones and euphoniums.

Rick "who has played in mixed tuba sections without unmanageable intonation problems" Denney

Rick Denney wrote:

I once made a joke on the old Tubenet that I had a C tuba with many intonation quirks. I found I could play it nicely in tune by using open for the low Bb, 4 for the C, 1-2 for the D, etc.

I had to explain it before anyone got the joke.

Rick "whose 'CC' tuba requires a lot of alternate fingerings" Denney

I'll bet you never found the 5th valve, did you?

Albertibass wrote:It is less expensive, but also, more into with its section mates. Trombone and euphonium are both Bb, and it is easier to keep them tubed with a BBb than with a CC (or keep the tuba tuned to them). But thats why its used for wind ensembles

The argument suggesting it's easier to keep Bb instruments in tune with each other really bothers me. Either you are in tune or you are not.

I think what really happens is when all of the Bb brass instruments are out-of-tune, then they will be out-of-tune together.

sloan wrote:

Rick Denney wrote:

I once made a joke on the old Tubenet that I had a C tuba with many intonation quirks. I found I could play it nicely in tune by using open for the low Bb, 4 for the C, 1-2 for the D, etc.

I had to explain it before anyone got the joke.

Rick "whose 'CC' tuba requires a lot of alternate fingerings" Denney

I'll bet you never found the 5th valve, did you?

This is a tuba I'd have to "C" in person!!

Albertibass wrote:It is less expensive, but also, more into with its section mates. Trombone and euphonium are both Bb, and it is easier to keep them tubed with a BBb than with a CC (or keep the tuba tuned to them). But thats why its used for wind ensembles

I never understood this argument. When you play a Bb on a CC tuba it is the same length horn and the same overtone series as it is on an open BBb tuba. Also you tune to the note being played. it doesn't matter what other notes can be played on that same valve combination's overtone series.

Someone mentioned earlier that orchestral tuba players played CC to match the C trumpet. Again the pitch of the horn has no relevance to the note being played. You can play any note in tune (or out of tune for that matter) on any tuba.

ken k

Wonder how the same kid would do on his CC if someone shoved a Bb bass brass band part under his nose?

Been there, done that, its not that hard. Transposition is a handy skill to have.

I play CC because when I needed to purchase a tuba of my own, my teacher said that most pros use CCs and you'd have the most luck finding an suitable instrument in that key. The "which key is better" argument has become rather circular. We can agree that CCs are more popular (professionally, in North America) but are they popular because they are better or better because they are popular (more R&D, etc.)

Rick Denney wrote:

DP wrote:"Why play BBflat tuba"?

Because it's much cheaper and I already know the fingerings.

Rick "who thinks 'why not' is good justification for those who have the scratch" Denney

Me too. If I were going to learn new fingerings it would be to be able to play a bass tuba, which I did when I picked up Eb a couple of years ago. I find having a BBb and an Eb (ok, actually 5 BBb's and 8 Eb's) to be the perfect combination for my amateur needs.