W.Hilgers plastic BBb

tubeast · Post by **tubeast** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 6:33 am

Some time ago there was a Meinl-Weston BBb mentioned that was to consist of plastic parts. Just found Walter HilgersÂ´ homepage http://www.walterhilgers.com/, English version available. A picture of the horn can be found in the galery section. (unfortunately it doesnÂ´t show the complete horn).
They even put an M-W logo sticker where youÂ´d expect to find an engraving in the bell. In a satin gold finish, this sure is a cool looking horn.

ThereÂ´s a pic of Hilgers playing a dark grey plastic sousaphone, too. Probably at a German Brass concert, but definitely in church.

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:36 am

That is very interesting, Hans. Thanks for sharing it.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 2:42 pm

Is it possible that the concert tuba is just made of fiberglass?

Ralph

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:21 pm

TexTuba wrote:Is it possible that the concert tuba is just made of fiberglass?

We had a brief discussion about this tuba in another thread.

TexTuba · Post by **TexTuba** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:27 pm

Daryl Fletcher wrote:
TexTuba wrote:Is it possible that the concert tuba is just made of fiberglass?
We had a brief discussion about this tuba in another thread.

Thank you very much for pointing that out.

Ralph

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:45 pm

There's another picture of these instruments on the German Brass website, although not very close up.

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:57 pm

tuben wrote:Ok, so how do you attach that small brass section of the bell to the (by your argument) plastic sections above and below? Seamlessly no less?

Robert I. Coulter

One idiot's guess? Could be that the bell and stack are formed separately, and the brass collar there is a ferrule. I would guess that it was probably epoxied on or fitted with O-rings. If O-rings, it could even be heated slightly to expand, then allowed to shrink into place as it cools.

Like I said, just one idiot's guesses...
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prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:02 pm

didn't Chuck Dallenbach have a tuba with a plastic bell so that he could do backflips and other acrobatic feats with it?

(they did a good job of making the plastic bell seem like it's satin brass).

Could be a screw bell? the leadpipe may just be attached to a band that is held tight by the shape of the bell and friction. Like a band around the bell dealio...

Daryl Fletcher · Post by **Daryl Fletcher** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:50 am

prototypedenNIS wrote:didn't Chuck Dallenbach have a tuba with a plastic bell so that he could do backflips and other acrobatic feats with it?

He had at least two different tubas with carbon fiber bells, the first one when they were still with Getzen and a second one some time after they switched back to Yamaha. The Yamaha instrument was a model that never went into regular production, even in a metal bell variety. As I recall it was a CC tuba with many parts that were designed for the 822 F tuba.

A couple of years ago, he switched back to the 621 with a conventional metal bell, just like he used on most of CB recordings I have from the 80's. I decided to write him an email to ask about it.

On Sun, 01 Feb 2004, Chuck Daellenbach wrote:Hi Daryl
Yes in fact I am playing the 621 all the time. This was the instrument that Schilke started, and was completed by the Yamaha designers in the 80's. The design was completed around 84. The new models 'off the shelf' are remarkable--Yamaha certainly has its manufacturing techniques down cold.
Thanks for you interest. Best, chuck

Bill Troiano · Post by **Bill Troiano** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:29 pm

Chuck used a Miraphone 184 CC on the earliest CB recordings.

Alex C · Post by **Alex C** » Fri Apr 14, 2006 8:41 pm

In the mid-80's, an organ grad student at UNT wrote a thesis on using different materials in the construction of organ pipes. Apparently, organ builders have a backlog of experience with this.

The conclusion of the thesis was that audiences of musicians could not tell by listening whether an organ pipe was built out of wood, aluminum, brass or plastic. The shape (round, square, conical, etc.) and taper had more effect than the materials. The paper was accepted by the committee.

A couple of years later, a grad tuba student at UNT did a research paper on different tubas. He had access to Miraphone 188's. He had tubas in brass lacquer, gold-brass lacquer and two silver-plated tubas. Audiences of musicians (well at least they were music majors at UNT) found more difference between the two silver 188's than they did any other instruments.

Go figure.

prototypedenNIS · Post by **prototypedenNIS** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:27 am

Bill Troiano wrote:Chuck used a Miraphone 184 CC on the earliest CB recordings.

and a Schilke (which became a Yamaha)

Joe Baker · Post by **Joe Baker** » Sat Apr 15, 2006 2:12 pm

tuben wrote:I'm glad this guy got to use his paper for his Masters, but he was mistaken. Just because an audience of musicians couldn't tell, doesn't mean there is not a difference.

The president of the company I work for is famous for observing that "two things that aren't the same are different", and I'll take your word for it that there is "a difference" in tone between pipe materials; but there are differences that matter and differences that don't matter. I suspect what the UNT paper was measuring was whether there was a difference that matters. It sounds as though the difference would matter if the audience was comprised only of organ builders

.

What I'd want to know, before I'd accept the paper, was the range of sizes and shapes of pipes tested, and whether they also tested difference tones.
_______________________________
Joe Baker, who finds it hard to believe that there wouldn't be SOME noticeable differences.