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Listening to the greats..(Bobo, Robert King, Gene P, etc..) i wonder is there a personal limit to one's playing ability..My band director says if one can practice about 7 hrs a day consistently over time they could reach amazing levels...but i'm not so sure...could it be that some people are just natuarally good tuba (brass)players? Or are these mind boggling levels of talent attainable by most through alot..ALOT of practice?

You can practice as long as you want to. If you don't practice effectively or practice well, then you'll be wasting your time. I do think more time in the practice room will usually equal better playing, but if you practice 8 hours a day and only 3 of those hours are actually helping, maybe you could just practice 3 hours and accomplish the same level of playing.

passion4tuba wrote:Listening to the greats..(Bobo, Robert King, Gene P, etc..) i wonder is there a personal limit to one's playing ability..My band director says if one can practice about 7 hrs a day consistently over time they could reach amazing levels...but i'm not so sure...could it be that some people are just natuarally good tuba (brass)players? Or are these mind boggling levels of talent attainable by most through alot..ALOT of practice?

Nobody is amazingly good until they have put in the face time. Some naturally get more out of their practice and go further with it, but without the big practice time, talent will be wasted.

But 7 hours a day of practice? No--not consistently. 7 hours a day thinking about music? Probably at least that.

A tuba-playing acquaintance of mine wanted to study with a very well-known local symphony player, and the teacher asked him how much he was practicing. The answer was 20 hours in some weeks, and in other weeks less. The teacher said, "call me when it can be 20 hours every week."

Even that doesn't mean that established pros practice that much, but every good pro I've ever known had some multi-year period in their lives when they practiced at those levels.

The prodigies may be prodigies because they are driven to practice at high levels right from the start.

So, you can't know what your talent is until you've put in the time. If you are not motivated to put in that time, then find that line of work that will motivate you that much. Motivation may not be enough, but without it nothing is enough.

Thus, we can't answer your question, because all the people you named have had the years of practice. Was it the practice or the talent? Yes.

Rick "who has never had that level of motivation" Denney

Then again, there are those players who are great with very little practice. Some people are just blessed by God with a high level of musical talent. Mozart was so good at such a young age, and created so much, I doubt he had much time to practice. With some the music just pours out naturally.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:Mozart was so good at such a young age, and created so much, I doubt he had much time to practice. With some the music just pours out naturally.

True, but anyone can walk up to a keyboard instrument and get a respectable note out of it. That hurdle easily overcome, they can then move on to the "musical" part. Since my daughter has been one and a half, she has liked to go over to the piano and press keys, once in a while it actually sounds like something. The only thing she has done to my tuba is knock it over and dent it. Brass instruments require a great deal of muscle coordination and development to get an optimun sound out, and the age at which one can start is somewhat limited by physical development.

On a similar vein, I have also heard some Jazz musicians say that one of the reasons the sax was so popular for improvising was that it required less effort and thought to play, therefore more of the mind could be spent on the improv part and not on the mechanics of the instrument.

Not to diminish the quality of Mozart's or Charlie Parker's works.

Marty "who doens't know too many pianists who spend an hour a day on long tones" Neilan

I believe that achieving greatness as a musician is very similar to being a world class athlete. The truly great ones are blessed with natural talent, and then develop that talent through a tremendous work ethic. Dillegence and perserverence are two of the most important qualities one can develop. I also think that there are many people, who may be as naturally talented, but never achieve anything because they don't make the required effort, or do things that sabotage their efforts.

It is also my firm belief that the greatest limitations we face are those which we impose on ourselves. This is where the power of positive thinking can be a tremendous help. Simply believing we can accomplish something is not enough, we still have to do the work. However, if we don't believe we can achieve something, we certainly won't, no matter how hard we work. It's like Henry Ford said, "whether we think we can do something, or we think we can't, in either case, we're probably right."

For those of us not blessed with the greatest natural abilities, I still beileve that high achievement, if not greatness, is within our grasp. What one person can learn, another person can learn as well. This is where practicing "smart" comes in. If a skill is more difficult for someone to learn, they must be able to work efficiently, and not waste valuable time through ineffective practice.

There's another saying I like that has a lot of merit. It goes, "don't confuse activity with accomplishment." If you are putting in a lot of time, but are not improving, then you need to re-evaluate your practice methods. For most of us, this requires taking a realistic look at our deficiencies, and then putting the extra effort in those areas.

We all have things we do well, and things that we don't do so well. The people who eventually become great are the ones that take the things they don't do well, and figure out a way improve in those areas, ultimately making them strengths. Usually, this requires taking a really hard and honest look at our playing, and determining the areas that need to be improved. Most of us don't want to do that. We have a tendancy to work hardest on our strengths, and only give passing attention to our weaknesses.

If there's something you are having problems doing well, find someone that is really good at it, and then ask them how they do it. This technique can be applied to anything in life. Don't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel. Find the people who are good in the areas where you need to improve, and then do things the same way they do them.

MellowSmokeMan wrote:Then again, there are those players who are great with very little practice. Some people are just blessed by God with a high level of musical talent. Mozart was so good at such a young age, and created so much, I doubt he had much time to practice. With some the music just pours out naturally.

Do you think that Mozart didn't get drilled by is father from the moment he could reach the keyboard? Sure, he was talented, but muscle memory is trained, not genetic. Knowing what you want the muscles to do after they are trained--that's the talent part.

Some players are good without much practice? Name one. There may be good players who are good now and who don't practice that much, but, as I said before, at some point in their lives, they put in the time.

Rick "figuring Jacobs had gone through the rest of the Arban's before getting to the Carnival of Venice at age 15" Denney

Let's see, what's the phrase --
Some are born great
Some aspire to greatness
Some have greatness thrust upon them.

happyroman wrote:
If there's something you are having problems doing well, find someone that is really good at it, and then ask them how they do it. This technique can be applied to anything in life. Don't waste time trying to reinvent the wheel. Find the people who are good in the areas where you need to improve, and then do things the same way they do them.

There is a contrary view.

Often, the people who are really good at something don't know how they do it. The truly great players sometimes have so much talent that they literally cannot understand the problems faced by good-but-not-great players.

Classic examples are found in baseball. Great baseball players rarely make good coaches/managers. Mickey Mantlle could PLAY - but Billy Martin was they guy you wanted to learn from.

This may, or may not, flip-flop at the VERY top. If you are one of the great talents, destined for a life at the very top - then perhaps you need counseling from someone who has been there and dealt with the special problems you will face.

John_L wrote:I don't believe one can be "great" without both innate talent and lots of (productive) practice. A person can be "good" with only one or the other, but never great.

I totally agree. It's like perfect pitch. If you're born with perfect pitch, your starting point is better off than say a person who can't carry a tune in a bucket. BUT, if the person who can't carry a tune worked hard enough, he/she would be able to surpass perfect pitch with enough diligence and time.

MartyNeilan wrote:True, but anyone can walk up to a keyboard instrument and get a respectable note out of it. That hurdle easily overcome, they can then move on to the "musical" part.

Uh, Marty, Mozart was playing violin when he was six,too. His tours as a child had him playing both the keyboard and the violin.