The new,new King 2341

[Chuck(G)]

Another quirk of these is the lack of a rolled edge where the tuning slides insert in the instruments. The cut ends of tubing on the outer slides seem a bit delicate.

Actually, the ends aren't rolled; rather a ring of brass is hard-soldered to the end of the tube. Outer slides generally are a bit more beefy than regular tubing, so there shouldn't be much of a problem.

[Davidrn1]

I too bought a King 2341 in January. I played through all of the Kings in the place. Yes Yes YES! there are HUGE diffenences in these horns. I played 12 and found only 2 that were worth my time in playing further. Well, I made the wrong choice. In February the first valve started sticking and has gotten nothing but worse. After numerous things (new caps and buttons) and a valve lapping, It is going back. I was also told that this is becomming a problem with this horn, and that King needs to address it.

I, as others, think that the intonation is great as well as the sound. It too is very fickle to the mpc that you use. I recommend trying a bunch with the horn.. The mpc that I used with my 3301 and My huge Conn sounded like crap in the King.

Needless to say, I am going back to the VMI when I can find a good deal on one. To me it is worth the extra price for the quality. I also feel that the VMI tone was better as was the finish. Also had no spit gurgles while trying to play.

[CJ Krause]

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[jmerring]

From what I have gathered from the posts herein, the horn is inconsistent from one to another, is of a lesser quality in construction and has other problems. My question would be then; why does the horn sell? I am scared of it, from what I read.

I, like BBbtubaman, am happy with my Miraphone (186 - not 191). I played quite a few horns at Dillon's until I found it. Quality of workmanship is superb and sound, intonation and projection are A1.

[Davidrn1]

I think it sells because it is probably the best American made BBb horn out there. It also is cheap compared to others out there by alot.

I understand that Dillon sets them all up before they go. Valves and other mods that they do.

Dillon is most likely the place I would go to buy a new horn.

I may wind up there yet if I can not find what I am looking for elsewhere.

I know some players that love this horn, and I know some(the number seems to be growing) that hate them.

I also think that the King 2341 is the fad horn of today like others have been in the past. Namely the VMI 3300 of about 2 years ago. The only difference is that the VMI kicks the KIng's butt in every way shape and form.

[Davidrn1]

. My only problem is with the spit in the 3rd and 4th vaulve, and that when 1 and 2 are put down at the same time, #1 can have problems getting up. Best horn that I have played, then again i have only played on 10 different horns.

I would hate to see the other tubas that you have played if a horn that gurgles with spit and sticks the valves is the best you have ever played. 25% success in finding a good one is not that great to me. I am not bashing you. Just trying to convey my feelings that this particular King instrument is not much more than a garden planter. The "good one" dosen't even sound that good!

Of all the horns that I have played.....its about like maybe approaching 30.....the worst ones were the Yamaha 201 because of intonation, the Karl Zeiss because of intonation and poor valve performance, and the King 2341 because it has the worst valve performance of all of them and gurgles at the most inoppurtune moments.

I don't hate King intsruments. My first horn, that I played on gigs, was a KIng 1040. I also played on several 24J's (Conn) and loved them. I just feel that King went way to cheap on this horn and that the design flaws that it has should have been fixed before it was released. I would have gladly payed another $500 to $1000 for the horn if these small things were fixed............And been happy!

[ken k]

And yes, I'll have to learn the "King Spin", it does fill up fast,

Instead of turning the horn all around, just take out the 3rd or 4th valve (whichever is gurgling) and tip the horn forward and it will come right out.

keep in mind that this horn was designed primarily for the HS band market. with that in mind and the price, it is one fine horn. All the samples I have played (granted that is only about 6 or 7) have been fine instruments, which I would have no problem using on a gig.

ken k

[Lew]

I had an older, 2 piece, King 2341 for about 7 years and although it appeared to be much more sturdily constructed than my new one, it had more "water retention" problems than any other tuba I have played. I had to do the "King spin" several times a rehearsal. When I became frustrated with what I perceived as the stuffiness of the low range, after trying many different horns over several months at Dillons (I lived in NJ at the time), I traded it for a Cerveny stencil. After about a year on the "Cerveny" I was in Dillons and tried out the new one-piece King 2341. I decided that I had to switch, even though I lost money on my existing horn.

I also owned a VMI 3302 (before the King), which I quickly decided I didn't like. I bought it because I wanted a 5 valve BBb horn and because I did like the way it played the first time I tried it. After using it for a few months though I found it really un-responsive and dull sounding. It had almost no resonance and everyone who heard me on it said they preferred my sound on my other horns. Intonation was also questionable on it.

I have had the King 2341 for a couple of years now and can honestly say that I see no reason why I would ever want to replace it. I don't have any gurgling problems, like I did on my old 2 piece version. I just tilt to the left and empty the top slides after each piece, and then tilt to the right and empty the spit valves, and I never have to do the "King spin" like I had to on the old one.

I love the sound of my King and the intonation is as near to perfect as I could expect. There are a couple of very small acid bleeds that are visible if you look hard, but I have had no problems with workmanship since I owned it. I will say that Matt Walters did "service" it shortly after I bought it, aligning the slides and cleaning the valves, but the valves have been smooth and the slides move easily ever since.

I bought mine from Dillons after trying the 6 of them that they had at the time. There were 2 that clearly played better for me, but all of them seemed OK. I still believe that the King 2341 is the best piston valve BBb tuba available today at it's price point. The only piston valve BBb tuba available new today that I thought played better was a Miraphone 1291, but it's more expensive and the difference wasn't enough for me to even consider trading my King.

[Davidrn1]

I also owned a VMI 3302 (before the King), which I quickly decided I didn't like. I bought it because I wanted a 5 valve BBb horn and because I did like the way it played the first time I tried it. After using it for a few months though I found it really un-responsive and dull sounding. It had almost no resonance and everyone who heard me on it said they preferred my sound on my other horns. Intonation was also questionable on it.

If you were using the same mouthpiece on the King as the VMI, it would sound different. I found that the VMI needed a different mouthpiece. I plyed trhough many to find that right one for the horn and sound I was looking for. It was a rudy Meinl RM2. The same mouthpiece in the King sounded way bad.

I think every horn has a certain mpc that it likes better than others. I thought the King 2341 tone was good but the VMI was much much better.

I played A VMI 3301 and had to sell it. Bought the King and sold it back becasue I hated it. Just ordered a 3302 Silver.

[sloan]

I've had a "new, new" 2341 for about 18 months now. Her's my summary of the pros and cons (and suggestions).

PRO

excellent sound, excellent intonation

CON

variable from sample to sample, somewhat loose valves, minor problems with silver plating, learning where the water collects and how to get rid of it

SUGGESTIONS

buy from someone with several on hand, buy from someone who will "tweak" it, if cosmetics are very important to you...buy jewelry instead. As for the water - my latest discovery is that the water key on the lower 4th valve slide is useless - you MUST pull that slide to empty water there. My current drill is to pull the upper 1st and 3rd slides, and the lower 4th slide. This eliminates 90% of the problems. For the last 5%, open the water key deep inside the wrap, hold the tuba completely upright, and rock back and forth slightly.

My valves NEVER stick (esp. since I switched to Hetman's), but I had one slightly mis-aligned tuning slide and I've had numerous small imperfections in the sliver plating. When I've accumulated a significant number of dings and dents, I suspect I'll invest in a complete re-plating...perhaps in 5 years. Until then, I think I'll just PLAY it - that's what it's best at..

Time to schedule my yearly trip to Lee Stofer - as usual, I'll wait until after fireworks season. I've accumulated two or three very minor dings and it needs a good chem-clean. When I get it back I'll continue my spot-plating experiments.

Bottom line: if you need a BBb to PLAY - this is the tuba for you. If you want a large piece of jewelry, look elsewhere.

[Lew]

... When I've accumulated a significant number of dings and dents, I suspect I'll invest in a complete re-plating...perhaps in 5 years. ...

I have had mine for about 3 years now and have yet to accumulate any dents. Unlike my earlier, 2 piece, King 2341, this one seems to be much sturdier brass. Maybe it's the satin silver, but I have had some minor run ins with stands and careless trombones, but it doesn't seem to dent. My other one picked up lots of small dents from similar incidents over the 7 years that I owned it.

The plating is also still perfect, although it does get a little hard to clean tarnish. We'll see what happens at the next chem clean. I did see a newer one at Tuba Christmas this past year in bright silver with several large areas where the silver just flaked away. When they sent it back to be replated under warranty, the silver wore away in the same places after a short period of time, and these weren't any spots that usually get wear.

[Gravid]

Those of you who own the "new" King 2341 BBb, which mouthpiece did you settle on for the horn? I don't know if it's just the particular horn that I'm playing, but I can't get the overall pitch down to A=440 to save my life. I've tried deep, medium and shallow cup mpcs, all w/the same results. I've even tried mpcs w/varying degrees of taper in the backbore, but still no improvement. The main tuning slide is all the way out, and it's still 15-20 cents sharp. Help!!

[Chuck(G)]

Those of you who own the "new" King 2341 BBb, which mouthpiece did you settle on for the horn? I don't know if it's just the particular horn that I'm playing, but I can't get the overall pitch down to A=440 to save my life. I've tried deep, medium and shallow cup mpcs, all w/the same results. I've even tried mpcs w/varying degrees of taper in the backbore, but still no improvement. The main tuning slide is all the way out, and it's still 15-20 cents sharp. Help!!

Do you tend to play sharp on all tubas? You might consult with a good teacher to see if there's something that you're doing that's working against you. But if this one horn's is the problem, read on.

If you've had this one for awhile and can't exchange it, you may want to have a repair tech extend your tuning slide. 20 cents at A440 represents a length of about 2.75 inches,which means that your main slide would need to be extended by about 1 3/8 inch on each leg.

[Chuck(G)]

If I'm not mistaken, Gravid is low brass instructor at Baylor University. I hardly think he needs to contact a teacher. I'd imagine he's not found any solution, and hopes that someone out there may have encountered this unusual problem and found a trick or unique solution.

Okay, scratch the teacher thing. He's got a horn that plays way too sharp. Lengthen the slide--at a whopping 20 cents sharp with the main slide pulled all the way out, I doubt that a mouthpiece trick is going to work.

[Chuck(G)]

I have a Conn 20J that will not play up to 440 no matter what mp I use. Other 20J's I've played are 440 with my mp's. I have a horn that is under pitch, that's all. Cut the slides, I guess. Can't exactly send it back to Conn at this point - it was made in 1946.

I wouldn't take the hacksaw out yet. Check the horn for leaks first; particularly in the valves--1960's 20J's with short-stroke valves generally stay pretty tight, but yours from 1946 is pre-SS, so might bear a look.

[Wes Krygsman]

I have the opposite problem(from having a sharp king). My new King(Dec 2002) is flat. I play in almost every large group and small ensemble in tune with my slide pushed all the way in. When it gets really hot i have to pull out a little bit. I guess this goes along with the fact that they are inconsistent.