The new,new King 2341

ken k · Post by **ken k** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 10:06 pm

Sammy Hughes wrote: And yes, I'll have to learn the "King Spin", it does fill up fast,

Instead of turning the horn all around, just take out the 3rd or 4th valve (whichever is gurgling) and tip the horn forward and it will come right out.

keep in mind that this horn was designed primarily for the HS band market. with that in mind and the price, it is one fine horn. All the samples I have played (granted that is only about 6 or 7) have been fine instruments, which I would have no problem using on a gig.

ken k

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:59 am

I had an older, 2 piece, King 2341 for about 7 years and although it appeared to be much more sturdily constructed than my new one, it had more "water retention" problems than any other tuba I have played. I had to do the "King spin" several times a rehearsal. When I became frustrated with what I perceived as the stuffiness of the low range, after trying many different horns over several months at Dillons (I lived in NJ at the time), I traded it for a Cerveny stencil. After about a year on the "Cerveny" I was in Dillons and tried out the new one-piece King 2341. I decided that I had to switch, even though I lost money on my existing horn.

I also owned a VMI 3302 (before the King), which I quickly decided I didn't like. I bought it because I wanted a 5 valve BBb horn and because I did like the way it played the first time I tried it. After using it for a few months though I found it really un-responsive and dull sounding. It had almost no resonance and everyone who heard me on it said they preferred my sound on my other horns. Intonation was also questionable on it.

I have had the King 2341 for a couple of years now and can honestly say that I see no reason why I would ever want to replace it. I don't have any gurgling problems, like I did on my old 2 piece version. I just tilt to the left and empty the top slides after each piece, and then tilt to the right and empty the spit valves, and I never have to do the "King spin" like I had to on the old one.

I love the sound of my King and the intonation is as near to perfect as I could expect. There are a couple of very small acid bleeds that are visible if you look hard, but I have had no problems with workmanship since I owned it. I will say that Matt Walters did "service" it shortly after I bought it, aligning the slides and cleaning the valves, but the valves have been smooth and the slides move easily ever since.

I bought mine from Dillons after trying the 6 of them that they had at the time. There were 2 that clearly played better for me, but all of them seemed OK. I still believe that the King 2341 is the best piston valve BBb tuba available today at it's price point. The only piston valve BBb tuba available new today that I thought played better was a Miraphone 1291, but it's more expensive and the difference wasn't enough for me to even consider trading my King.

Davidrn1 · Post by **Davidrn1** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 8:41 pm

I also owned a VMI 3302 (before the King), which I quickly decided I didn't like. I bought it because I wanted a 5 valve BBb horn and because I did like the way it played the first time I tried it. After using it for a few months though I found it really un-responsive and dull sounding. It had almost no resonance and everyone who heard me on it said they preferred my sound on my other horns. Intonation was also questionable on it.

If you were using the same mouthpiece on the King as the VMI, it would sound different. I found that the VMI needed a different mouthpiece. I plyed trhough many to find that right one for the horn and sound I was looking for. It was a rudy Meinl RM2. The same mouthpiece in the King sounded way bad.

I think every horn has a certain mpc that it likes better than others. I thought the King 2341 tone was good but the VMI was much much better.

I played A VMI 3301 and had to sell it. Bought the King and sold it back becasue I hated it. Just ordered a 3302 Silver.

sloan · Post by **sloan** » Tue Jun 08, 2004 11:59 pm

I've had a "new, new" 2341 for about 18 months now. Her's my summary of the pros and cons (and suggestions).

PRO

excellent sound, excellent intonation

CON

variable from sample to sample, somewhat loose valves, minor problems with silver plating, learning where the water collects and how to get rid of it

SUGGESTIONS

buy from someone with several on hand, buy from someone who will "tweak" it, if cosmetics are very important to you...buy jewelry instead. As for the water - my latest discovery is that the water key on the lower 4th valve slide is useless - you MUST pull that slide to empty water there. My current drill is to pull the upper 1st and 3rd slides, and the lower 4th slide. This eliminates 90% of the problems. For the last 5%, open the water key deep inside the wrap, hold the tuba completely upright, and rock back and forth slightly.

My valves NEVER stick (esp. since I switched to Hetman's), but I had one slightly mis-aligned tuning slide and I've had numerous small imperfections in the sliver plating. When I've accumulated a significant number of dings and dents, I suspect I'll invest in a complete re-plating...perhaps in 5 years. Until then, I think I'll just PLAY it - that's what it's best at..

Time to schedule my yearly trip to Lee Stofer - as usual, I'll wait until after fireworks season. I've accumulated two or three very minor dings and it needs a good chem-clean. When I get it back I'll continue my spot-plating experiments.

Bottom line: if you need a BBb to PLAY - this is the tuba for you. If you want a large piece of jewelry, look elsewhere.

Lew · Post by **Lew** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 2:27 pm

sloan wrote:... When I've accumulated a significant number of dings and dents, I suspect I'll invest in a complete re-plating...perhaps in 5 years. ...

I have had mine for about 3 years now and have yet to accumulate any dents. Unlike my earlier, 2 piece, King 2341, this one seems to be much sturdier brass. Maybe it's the satin silver, but I have had some minor run ins with stands and careless trombones, but it doesn't seem to dent. My other one picked up lots of small dents from similar incidents over the 7 years that I owned it.

The plating is also still perfect, although it does get a little hard to clean tarnish. We'll see what happens at the next chem clean. I did see a newer one at Tuba Christmas this past year in bright silver with several large areas where the silver just flaked away. When they sent it back to be replated under warranty, the silver wore away in the same places after a short period of time, and these weren't any spots that usually get wear.

Gravid · Post by **Gravid** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 7:31 pm

Those of you who own the "new" King 2341 BBb, which mouthpiece did you settle on for the horn? I don't know if it's just the particular horn that I'm playing, but I can't get the overall pitch down to A=440 to save my life. I've tried deep, medium and shallow cup mpcs, all w/the same results. I've even tried mpcs w/varying degrees of taper in the backbore, but still no improvement. The main tuning slide is all the way out, and it's still 15-20 cents sharp. Help!!

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:25 am

Gravid wrote:Those of you who own the "new" King 2341 BBb, which mouthpiece did you settle on for the horn? I don't know if it's just the particular horn that I'm playing, but I can't get the overall pitch down to A=440 to save my life. I've tried deep, medium and shallow cup mpcs, all w/the same results. I've even tried mpcs w/varying degrees of taper in the backbore, but still no improvement. The main tuning slide is all the way out, and it's still 15-20 cents sharp. Help!!

Do you tend to play sharp on all tubas? You might consult with a good teacher to see if there's something that you're doing that's working against you. But if this one horn's is the problem, read on.

If you've had this one for awhile and can't exchange it, you may want to have a repair tech extend your tuning slide. 20 cents at A440 represents a length of about 2.75 inches,which means that your main slide would need to be extended by about 1 3/8 inch on each leg.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:08 pm

Doc wrote:If I'm not mistaken, Gravid is low brass instructor at Baylor University. I hardly think he needs to contact a teacher. I'd imagine he's not found any solution, and hopes that someone out there may have encountered this unusual problem and found a trick or unique solution.

Okay, scratch the teacher thing. He's got a horn that plays way too sharp. Lengthen the slide--at a whopping 20 cents sharp with the main slide pulled all the way out, I doubt that a mouthpiece trick is going to work.

Chuck(G) · Post by **Chuck(G)** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:37 pm

Doc wrote: I have a Conn 20J that will not play up to 440 no matter what mp I use. Other 20J's I've played are 440 with my mp's. I have a horn that is under pitch, that's all. Cut the slides, I guess. Can't exactly send it back to Conn at this point - it was made in 1946.

I wouldn't take the hacksaw out yet. Check the horn for leaks first; particularly in the valves--1960's 20J's with short-stroke valves generally stay pretty tight, but yours from 1946 is pre-SS, so might bear a look.

Wes Krygsman · Post by **Wes Krygsman** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 7:33 pm

I have the opposite problem(from having a sharp king). My new King(Dec 2002) is flat. I play in almost every large group and small ensemble in tune with my slide pushed all the way in. When it gets really hot i have to pull out a little bit. I guess this goes along with the fact that they are inconsistent.