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Just a combination question. Today I was told from a professional salesperson, amateur-semi pro. Euphonium player and he said that the 4th valve can , but shouldn't be used for the high F above the 2nd leger line because its not "really" an F and it diminishes the tonal quality. I was just curious to WHICH notes should use the fourth valve for, I know there are tons of notes that can use the 4th valve, but which shouldn't I play the same as a three valve?

Thanks,

Kevin

Some pitches are notoriuosly sharp on some horns (F, E, Eb on Bessons, for example) using 4th valve in combination with regular fingerings often helps bring these pitches in line. It does, however, make them "feel" different because of the additional tubing involved. Tuba players use alternate fingerings (some even arcane) all the time and do not talk about whether they are "real" or not. Just figure out what YOU have to do to play YOUR horn in tune and do it.

heh what i thought.

Nobody cares what buttons you press when you play. They care that the resulting note is in tune and sounds good.

Rick "amazed by how observations turn into rules without justification" Denney

The only two reasons I have ever heard that might hold any water as to why to avoid using multiple valve combinations on higher notes are 1) with the added tubing, the note may sound stuffy compared to fingering the same note with less valves, and 2) since the starting note of the harmonic series with a particular multivalve fingering is lower than one with a single valve, by the time you get that high the space between harmonics becomes closer, and you have a greater chance of missing notes with faulty embouchure than when you use less valves, which then have more space between the harmonics, and theoretically less chance of cracking a note. I'm not sure either of them mean anything if you are a good player and know your horn really well.

On the other hand, depending on the part and whether it's easier to lip slur, avoid awkward scalar or interval fingerings, true up octaves, (c to c comes to mind!) color your tone or intonation to a particular desired result, there are more positive reasons to develop your faculty of knowing as many alternate fingerings on your horn as possible, whether it involves slide pulling or not. A simplistic example is on a 4-valve BBb tuba where you might want to play the low open BBb as 4-1 instead so the added "stuffiness" actually helps the attack and hold of a multi-bar pianissimo ostentato or blend a phrase centered just below that better.

I remember when I was in the Army and I played my CC tuba with the band, there were a couple of members in the section who had never seen one and always tried to correct me on my fingering. When I played the D-flat with valves 1, 2, and 5, my section leader tried to get me to use 2 and 3! He didn't see the fifth valve and thought I was not reading the music correctly.

Xtreme,

I regularly use the 4th valve for the sixth harmonic notes, but only in ensemble playing (the knock to the tone quality is practically unnoticeable). Being that the sixth harmonic is always going to be sharp, this is a great way to bring those notes in tune without stretching the embouchure too much and risk cracks. Now, this is something that I'm comfortable with because I've been doing it for almost ten years. When my college band director first told me that in the fall of 1996, I hated the tone quality and cracked the F four out of five times. However, after using it this long, I rarely crack it, and I've improved the tone quality. Just like a previous poster said, do what you have to do to put the note where it needs to be. If it's adding the 4th valve, so be it. If it's playing it open and lipping it down like mad, so be it. Good luck!